More Discussions for this daf
1. The key to rain and the nature of "Shelichus" 2. MAYIM 3. First Mishnah
4. Three Keys 5. Techiyas ha'Mesim, Nisuch ha'Mayim, Eser Neti'os 6. R'Yehoshua
7. Machlokes Rashi and Tosfos 8. Af Bri and the Key of Rain 9. Tefilas Geshem
10. Why does R' Yehoshua Need to Bring Another R'ayah 11. The keys of life 12. Maftechos
13. Resurrection of the dead? 14. Meshech Chochmah about the keys to the seas 15. Ra'avan
16. the 3 maftejot 17. Mashiv ha'Ru'ach 18. Mashiv ha'Ruach
19. The Hint of Nisuch ha'Mayim according to Rabbi Yehuda ben Beseirah 20. לפיכך אם בא להזכיר כל השנה כולה מזכיר

Elazar Yechiel Bernstein asked:

(a) What is the Ramchal saying in Midas hakedusha in messilot Yesharim. It seeems the Ramchol holds that the rule is a rule and Eliyahu was an exception because he gained ascess through dveikus! How does the Ramchal fit in with Rashi and Tos. To my knowledge he can't argue unless he has an earlier source.

(b) What is the Maharal saying in the 52 perek of gevuras H' on this Geamah. What does it mean that only a poel gamur can create a new Yotzei el Hapoel. What is the metzius in what the Mahara"l says that since a Malach has a mekor in gashmi he is not considered a poel gamur. Is the Ramchal saying that this chisaron in angel can be corrected in man through dveikus by rising higher than the angels!? Once again how do the Mahalchim of the Ramchal and the Ma'haral fit in with Machlokes Rashi Tos'.

(c) Why is there so much arguement on what the key of childbirth is tos in nidah says childbirth but the Tos harosh seems to argue in saying conception. Medrash in Bereshis 7:6 along with Targum Yerushalmi Bereshis 30: 22 seem to be mashmah conception but theMedrash Hanalom in vayerah 117:b says straight out its childbirth. Is itpossible everyone is looking at the same coin but describing it two ways. It seems this is what the ben yehoyada does saying that childbirth is determined at shas hiryon but at the end says p'geresh that thsis is the key of childbirth and not conception so what does he say about the medrash and Targum Yerushalmi, not to mention Tos! What is going on in the sugya!

Thanks in advance,

Elazar Bernstein

The Kollel replies:

(a) Only through Deveikus can one attain the keys even for a temporary time (Tosfos), or receive one of the three keys (Rashi). That is why only Eliyahu ever received them.

(b) A Malach, in the context that the Maharal is discussing, represents the forces of nature as they are controlled by the hands of Hash-m. But these three things (rain, childbirth, Techiyas ha'Mesim) are above nature and are not subject to the rules of nature (see Insights to 2a, at length). Regarding how Eliyahu obtained the key to rain, the Maharal will answer like Rashi and Tosfos, that to receive one out of the three keys at a time, or to receive the keys temporarily, it is not necessary to have a "Po'el Gamur."

(c) It is clear that the reason the key for childbirth, as well as the other keys mentioned in the Gemara, are not given to a Shaliach is because they are the keys for life . As such, it seems that the Midrashim are arguing with regard to the Machlokes of Rebbi and Antoninus (Sanhedrin 91b). They argued when a person receives his Neshamah. Antoninus said that a person receives his Neshamah (and with it, the gift of individual life) at the moment of conception, while Rebbi said that a person receives his Neshamah at the moment of birth, when he exits the womb. In the end, Rebbi agreed to Antoninus.

The Midrashim are arguing whether the beginning of life (that is, the time at which one receives a Neshamah) is from conception, like the conclusion of the Gemara in Sanhedrin, or from birth, like Rebbi's Havah Amina.

(It seems that this is also the argument between Rebbi Akiva and Rebbi Tarfon, concerning whether we measure the distance from a corpse that was found between two cities (for purposes of bringing an Eglah Arufah) from its Tibor (midsection) or from its nostrils. Everyone maintains that we measure from the part of the body through which life first entered it (since it is a Kaparah for the taking of the life). They argue, though, whether the beginning of life was at the time of conception (and thus they measure from the midsection, where its life was sustained while in the womb), or at the time of birth (and thus they measure from the nostrils, where it took its first breath).

M. Kornfeld