More Discussions for this daf
1. The key to rain and the nature of "Shelichus" 2. MAYIM 3. First Mishnah
4. Three Keys 5. Techiyas ha'Mesim, Nisuch ha'Mayim, Eser Neti'os 6. R'Yehoshua
7. Machlokes Rashi and Tosfos 8. Af Bri and the Key of Rain 9. Tefilas Geshem
10. Why does R' Yehoshua Need to Bring Another R'ayah 11. The keys of life 12. Maftechos
13. Resurrection of the dead? 14. Meshech Chochmah about the keys to the seas 15. Ra'avan
16. the 3 maftejot 17. Mashiv ha'Ru'ach 18. Mashiv ha'Ruach
19. The Hint of Nisuch ha'Mayim according to Rabbi Yehuda ben Beseirah 20. לפיכך אם בא להזכיר כל השנה כולה מזכיר

Dovid Tashbook asked:

In the first Mishna it talks about "Gevuras Gashamim" (The Powers of Rain), whereas later on in Shemona Esreh, we actually ask for rain, etc.

(a) If this be the case, and we "forget to say Mashev HaRuah..." why do you have to repeat -- as it is Praises to HaShem.

(b) does the same apply if in the paragraph M'Chalkel Chaim, if you skip a phrase (ie.. Rofeh Cholim) do you likewise have to repeat?

Thanks in advance.

Dovid Tashbook, Los Angeles, USA

The Kollel replies:

(a) Actually the Gemara states (below 3b) that if someone did not say Mashiv ha'Ru'ach in the rainy season he is not required to repeat the Shemoneh Esreh. This is because there is always wind so his saying Mashiv ha'Ru'ach does not make a difference.

(However Mishneh Berurah 114:11 writes that the universal custom is Lecatchila to say Mashiv ha'Ru'ach in the winter because the wind helps to dry out the wet ground.)

Rather, the question would be, "why does the above Gemara state that if one does not say Morid ha'Geshem in the winter one does have to repeat the Shemoneh Esreh?" The answer is that it does not depend on whether one is praising Hash-m or making a request from him, but rather it depends on whether Chazal said explicitly that one repeats it if one omitted it. Because rain is so badly needed ,Chazal specifically mentioned that if one misses it this is as if one has not prayed at all.

(b) Mishneh Berurah 68:1 quotes KESEF MISHNEH that if one skipped out a few words in the middle of the Beracha one is still "Yotzei" and one does not have to repeat the Shemoneh Esreh, as long as the beginning and end of the Beracha was satisfactory. Therefore if one missed out Rofeh Cholim in Mechalkel Chayim one does not have to repeat it (unless one has not yet said the name of Hash-m in the Beracha of Mechayeh Mesim). This is not similar to someone who omitted Morid ha'Geshem because Chazal state explicitly about the latter that without it there is no Shemoneh Esreh as explained above.


D. Bloom