More Discussions for this daf
1. The key to rain and the nature of "Shelichus" 2. MAYIM 3. First Mishnah
4. Three Keys 5. Techiyas ha'Mesim, Nisuch ha'Mayim, Eser Neti'os 6. R'Yehoshua
7. Machlokes Rashi and Tosfos 8. Af Bri and the Key of Rain 9. Tefilas Geshem
10. Why does R' Yehoshua Need to Bring Another R'ayah 11. The keys of life 12. Maftechos
13. Resurrection of the dead? 14. Meshech Chochmah about the keys to the seas 15. Ra'avan
16. the 3 maftejot 17. Mashiv ha'Ru'ach 18. Mashiv ha'Ruach
19. The Hint of Nisuch ha'Mayim according to Rabbi Yehuda ben Beseirah 20. לפיכך אם בא להזכיר כל השנה כולה מזכיר
DAF DISCUSSIONS - TA'ANIS 2

Michael asks:

Hi,

Just started learning Ta'anis b'chavrusa and would love your help with a few questions.

1) Rabbi Eliezer suggests in the Beraisa that just like we mention Techias HaMeisim all year, "v'eina ela b'zmanah," so too we can mention rain all year. I don't completely understand that line. Is Rabbi Eliezer suggesting there is a specific time frame for techias hameisim? Rabbi Yehoshua later argues and says that techias hameisim is something we want to happen at all times, whereas rain is not. Is Rabbi Eliezer saying that we specifically want techias hameisim to happen at some specific time, and if so, what?

2) Based on the words "vniskeihem," "unesacheha," and "k'mishpatam," we have the extra letters mem yud mem which spells mayim which is a remez for nisuch hamayim. However, in the first word, don't we have TWO extra letters? Yes, the mem, but also yud makes it plural! Isn't that yud an additional letter as well?

3) (Daf 3) Can you please explain the halacha l'Moshe Misinai re: Eser Netios in simple language?

Thank you so much! Tizku l'mitzvos

Michael, USA

The Kollel replies:

Dear Michael,

1. Rebbi Yehoshua is saying that Techiyas ha'Mesim can occur at any time, even now, with our Teshuvah, while Rebbi Eliezer says that it cannot occur now for sure but only at a later date, seemingly only after the world changes after 6000 years.

2. The Mefarshim ask your question about the added Yud in "Niskeihem." One answer is that that the Yud is there only for the added Mem and it does not deserve its own Derashah (Shitah l'Ba'al ha'Tzeruros, DH Eima). Another answer is that the Yud is soundless as opposed to both the Mem and the Yud of "Nesacheha" which causes a new syllable (Sifra d'Vei Rav, Pinchas 150, DH v'Ha).

3. It is forbidden Min ha'Torah to plow even before Rosh Hashanah of Shemitah (30 days, -Rashi), but in the situation of

Eser Neti'os the Torah permits plowing until Rash Hashanah if there are 10 saplings within an area of 50 by 50 Amos (a Beis Se'ah). In such a case, the entire area of 50 by 50 Amos may be plowed. (Rashi adds that it is because the Torah does not want the loss of the 10 saplings.) Below is what we wrote in the Backround to the Daf about Eser Neti'os.

All the best,

Reuven Weiner

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ESER NETI'OS

(a) The Torah requires that farmers desist from working the land every seventh year, as described in Vayikra 25:1-7.

(b) Chazal learn from the verse, "be'Charish uva'Katzir Tishbos" (Shemos 34:21), that mid'Oraisa the prohibition against plowing the land during Shemitah starts one month before the actual Shemitah year ("Tosefes Shevi'is"). This applies both to fields and to orchards with grown trees. The Rabanan added to this prohibition and prohibited plowing a field from the Pesach before Shemitah and an orchard with grown trees from the Shavu'os before Shemitah.

(c) Halachah l'Moshe mi'Sinai of "Eser Neti'os" teaches that if ten saplings are planted with equidistant spacing in an area of a Beis Se'ah (fifty square Amos), one is permitted to plow them right up to Rosh Hashanah of the Shemitah year, in spite of the Mitzvah of Tosefes Shevi'is described above. If there are less than ten saplings in this area or they are not planted as above (with equidistant spacing in the area of a Beis Se'ah), it is only permitted to plow the immediate area around each sapling up to the Shemitah year, but not the entire orchard (Shevi'is 1:6).