More Discussions for this daf
1. The key to rain and the nature of "Shelichus" 2. MAYIM 3. First Mishnah
4. Three Keys 5. Techiyas ha'Mesim, Nisuch ha'Mayim, Eser Neti'os 6. R'Yehoshua
7. Machlokes Rashi and Tosfos 8. Af Bri and the Key of Rain 9. Tefilas Geshem
10. Why does R' Yehoshua Need to Bring Another R'ayah 11. The keys of life 12. Maftechos
13. Resurrection of the dead? 14. Meshech Chochmah about the keys to the seas 15. Ra'avan
16. the 3 maftejot 17. Mashiv ha'Ru'ach 18. Mashiv ha'Ruach
19. The Hint of Nisuch ha'Mayim according to Rabbi Yehuda ben Beseirah 20. לפיכך אם בא להזכיר כל השנה כולה מזכיר

Jack Walfish asks:

The Gemara 2a brings the statement of Rav Yochanan that there are 3 Maftechos, or keys which HKBH Does not give to a Shaliach, then on 2b it brings the opinion "B'maarava" That there are 4 keys.

B'maarava is usually understood to mean in Eretz Yisroel, but Rav Yochanan was also in Eretz Yisroel, so does it have another connotation in this case? Was there another academy in Eretz Yisroel other than that of Rav Yochanan to which B'marava refers?

The Masores Hashas in the Oz V'hadar Shas here refers us to a Targum Yerushalmi which also refers to 4 keys; not sure if this is relevant to this question.

Thank you,


The Kollel replies:

Dear Jack,

Just because R' Yochanan says 3 doesn't stop others in Eretz Yisroel to say 4, maybe even in the same Yeshiva.

Rav Halperin in Atlas Etz Chaim refers to 5 generations of Amoraim in Eretz Yisroel. R' Yochanan is called 2nd generation. There were many ,many others. See there at length.

All the best, Reuven Weiner

The Kollel adds:

The Gemara in Sanhedrin 17b explains that when the phrase 'Amrei b'Ma'arava' appears, the statement in question can be attributed to Rebbi Yirmeyah (who started off in Bavel and went to learn in Eretz Yisrael, Kesuvos 75a, but apparently maintained contact with his old study partners in Bavel). If so, it is possible that 'b'Ma'arava Amrei' is also referring to Rebbi Yirmeyah.

Rebbi Yirmeyah lived, and is buried, in Teveryah (as was Rebbi Yochanan) about a generation after Rebbi Yochanan.

Best regards,

M. Kornfeld, Kollel Iyun Hadaf