More Discussions for this daf
1. The key to rain and the nature of "Shelichus" 2. MAYIM 3. First Mishnah
4. Three Keys 5. Techiyas ha'Mesim, Nisuch ha'Mayim, Eser Neti'os 6. R'Yehoshua
7. Machlokes Rashi and Tosfos 8. Af Bri and the Key of Rain 9. Tefilas Geshem
10. Why does R' Yehoshua Need to Bring Another R'ayah 11. The keys of life 12. Maftechos
13. Resurrection of the dead? 14. Meshech Chochmah about the keys to the seas 15. Ra'avan
16. the 3 maftejot 17. Mashiv ha'Ru'ach 18. Mashiv ha'Ruach
19. The Hint of Nisuch ha'Mayim according to Rabbi Yehuda ben Beseirah 20. לפיכך אם בא להזכיר כל השנה כולה מזכיר

Alberto Yohros asked:

shalom rabanim and moadim lesimja...

i know this is not the daf yomi daf but i have a question on a diferrent masejta....

in masejet taanit daf b amud alef ribi yohanan talks about 3 keys i have 2 questions about this.

1-) that means there are more keys by the way it is said it is that once i heard a shiur that eliyahu hanavi couldnt make tijiyat hametim on the shunamits kid because he had already the key of rain and he couldnt have 2 keys and the master(hkbh) only 1 key thats why he had to give it back but if there are more keys what would be the difference 2 in hte hands of eliyahu hanavi and who knows how many others in the hands of hkbh (unless we are talking about special keys but anyway with that answer it seems a little i dont know i cant understand it.

2-) i think im wrong in this question but anyway i have to ask this wasnt eliyahu hanavi given the maftejet of jaya also that menas he had the 3 keys maybe not at the same time but he had all 3 wich makes a huge dife3rence in the understanding of this gemara and also i think i must be wrong because if he would have had the haya key ( at the time taht the shunamit asked him that she wanted a kid and she had it) tosafot would have brought in his kashia that he had the 3 maftejot not only 2 as he said.

thank you in anticipation i hope it is not much trouble to make rebbi go to a different masejta and if it is a little bit of trouble please dont answer me thank.


Alberto Yohros, panama city, panama

The Kollel replies:

When R. Yochanan lists three keys that are not handed over to a Sheli'ach, then he means that although there are other keys that are regularly handed to Sheluchim (see Tosfos, end of DH 'Vayishma'), these three Hash-m generally retains Himself (only handing them to special Sheluchim under extenuating circumstances) ... these three and these three only!

By the way, the same Tosfos also points out that although there are 'bad' keys that Hash-m retains, R. Yochanan is talking specifically about good ones.

Consequently, what you heard (which incidentally, is cited here in the Agados Maharsha) makes good sense.

As for your second question, we will have to say that, according to Tosfos, Eliyahu arranged for the Tzorfatis to have a baby by means of Tefilah (which any Tzadik can do) and not directly by his command, as he did regarding the other two. In which case, Tosfos reference to the two (and not three) keys that were handed to Eliyahu is justified.

be'Virchas Kol Tuv

Eliezer Chrysler.

The Kollel adds:

Shalom and thanks for your questions.

First let me make a slight correction. Eliyahu did T'chiyas Hameisim on the son of the Tzorfatis. The stories with the Shunamis occurred with Elisha, the Talmid of Eliyahu.

1) In the simple understanding of the Geomora, three keys are never given out by Hash-m. The exception to this rule was Eliyahu ha'Navi who first received the key to rain, and later the key to T'chiyas Hameisim. When Eliyahu requested the key to T'chiyas Hameisim, Hash-m replied that if he continues to hold on to the key of rain, he would have the majority of those special keys in his possession. It is therefore necessary for him, to return the key of rain to Hash-m, before receiving the key of T'chiyas Hameism.

2) As I mentioned earlier the stories of the Shunamis were with Elisha not Eliyahu. It would also seem that in these cases Elisha did not acquire the keys, but rather davened to Hash-m and Hash-m granted his requests. Unlike the case of Eliyahu, where he was able to swear, "that there will be no rain, unless he declares so", obviously Eliyahu was in total control. When he wished to revive the son the Torfatis, Hash-m could have granted his wish without giving him the key to T'chiyas Hameisim, but that would have defeated the purpose.

All the best,

Yehuda Landy