i dont understand tosafot, how is the reason they cant be the same is because r' yehoshua argues, dont we know what those zmanim are and theyr different, tzeis, and bein hashmashot
Marcus Abisror, Long Branch
Dear Marcus,
You say that Tzeis and Bein ha'Shmashos are certainly different, but Tosfos is suggesting something new: Perhaps Rebbi Eliezer's two phrases of Kidesh ha'Yom and Kohen eating are the same time, so there is no contradiction and the Gemara is incorrect in its question. To that suggestion, Tosfos answers that they cannot be the same time since the same Beraisa that quotes Rebbi Eliezer as saying Kidesh ha'Yom immediately afterwards records the view of Rebbi Yehoshua who argues and says the time of Kohen eating, so they cannot be the same time. The Gemara is correct in asking the contradiction in Rebbi Eliezer.
All the best,
Reuven Weiner
How can it be the same time, we know what those times represent, kidesh hayom - being hashmashot. Teruma - tzeis. So you don't need the reason that reb yehoshua is in the beraita.
Dear Marcus,
I found that the Tzelach asks your question. He answers that if Bein ha'Shemashos is Heref Ayin before Tzeis, it is very close to Tzeis and then we're allowed to call it the same time.
The Od Yosef Chai answers differently -- that maybe Kidesh ha'Yom can mean not the beginning of Bein ha'Shemashos but the end of the doubt of Bein ha'Shemashos, and that means Tzeis. That is what Kidesh ha'Yom of Rebbi Eliezer means.
The Mitzpeh Eisan says that Rebbi Eliezer allows eating Terumah at Kidesh ha'Yom, the beginning of Bein ha'Shemashos, since Terumah is nowadays only mid'Rabanan, so you can make a Kula as soon as possible.
All the best,
Reuven Weiner