FOR WHICH TRANSGRESSIONS DO KORBANOS ATONE? (cont.)
Answer #3 - Question (R. Yirmeyah): If the goats (of the Tzibur) of Shavu'os were slaughtered at the same time and their blood was received in different Kelim, after throwing the blood of one, why do we throw the blood of the other?
Answer (R. Zeira): It atones for Tum'ah that occurred in between the two Zerikos.
R. Yirmeyah asked only whether a Korban (i.e. the second) can atone for a transgression after it was slaughtered. This implies that he was sure that it can atone for a transgression after it was Hukdash!
Rejection: Perhaps R. Yirmeyah was unsure also about that;
He asked, if you will say that that it can atone for a transgression after it was Hukdash, can it atone for a transgression after it was slaughtered?
KORBANOS OFFERED SHE'LO LISHMAN
(Rabah): If Reuven's Todah was slaughtered l'Shem Shimon (who was Makdish a Todah for himself), it is Kosher. (Reuven was Yotzei. Shinuy Ba'alim only applies if it was on condition to do Zerikah for someone else);
(Rav Chisda): It is Pasul. (I.e. he was not Yotzei, but the Korban is Kosher.)
Support (Rabah for himself - Beraisa - Aba Chavin): "U'Vesar Zevach Todas Shelamav" teaches that if a Todah was slaughtered l'Shem Shelamim, it is Kosher. If a Shelamim was slaughtered l'Shem Todah, it is Pasul.
Question: What is the difference between the cases?
Answer: Todah is called a Shelamim (it is a type of Shelamim). A (regular) Shelamim is not called a Todah.
Inference: If a Shelamim was slaughtered l'Shem Todah, it is Pasul, but a Todah slaughtered l'Shem a different Todah is Kosher!
Suggestion: This means that if Reuven's Todah was slaughtered l'Shem Shimon's Todah, it is Kosher.
Rejection: No, it means that Reuven's Todah was slaughtered l'Shem a different Todah of his (e.g. for a different danger that Hash-m saved him from), it is Kosher.
Question: If when Reuven's Todah was slaughtered l'Shem Shimon's Todah it is Pasul, the Beraisa should have taught this, all the more so we would know that a Shelamim slaughtered l'Shem Todah is Pasul!
Answer: It needed to teach about a Shelamim that was slaughtered l'Shem Todah;
One might have thought that since Todah is called Shelamim, also Shelamim is called Todah. The Beraisa teaches that this is not so.
(Rava): If Reuven's Chatas was slaughtered l'Shem Chatas (Rashi - his own Chatas for a different transgression; R. Tam - Shimon's Chatas), it is Kosher (and Reuven was Yotzei);
If it was slaughtered l'Shem Olah, it is Pasul.
Question: What is the reason?
Answer: "V'Shachat Osah l'Chatas" - as long as it was slaughtered l'Shem Chatas, it is fully Kosher, but not if it was slaughtered l'Shem Olah.
(Rava): If Reuven's Chatas was slaughtered for Shimon, and Shimon must bring a Chatas, it is (totally) Pasul;
If Shimon is obligated to bring (Rashi - and already was Makdish) an Olah, it is Kosher (but Reuven was not Yotzei).
Question: What is the reason?
Answer: "V'Chiper Alav" - not for someone else;
(Intent for) the other person disqualifies the Korban only if he resembles Reuven, i.e. he needs the same Kaparah. (Shimon does not need Kaparah from a Chatas. His Olah will atone for him.)
(Rava): If Reuven's Chatas (our text; some texts say 'Olah') was slaughtered on behalf of Shimon, and Shimon (thinks that he) need not bring any Korban, it is (totally) Pasul;
Surely, Shimon once was Mevatel an Aseh (but since he does not know this, he will not bring an Olah), so a Chatas could atone for him (like Rava taught).
(Rava): A Chatas atones for Bitul Aseh.
A Kal va'Chomer teaches this. A Chatas atones for Chayavei Kerisus. All the more so, it atones for Bitul Aseh!
Question: Since Chatas atones also for Bitul Aseh, why did Rava say that if a Chatas was slaughtered for someone obligated to bring a Chatas, it is Pasul, but if it was for someone obligated to bring an Olah (i.e. he was Mevatel an Aseh), it is Kosher?!
Answer: Chatas gives a small Kaparah for Bitul Aseh, but not a major Kaparah.
(Rava): If an Olah was slaughtered Lo Lishmah, one may not throw the blood Lo Lishmah.
We can learn from reasoning or a verse.
A verse - "...v'Asisa Ka'asher Nodarta...Nedavah" (if you did as you vowed, i.e. the Zevach was slaughtered Lishmah, it is a Neder. If not, it is a Nedavah. A Nedavah may not be offered Lo Lishmah)!
Reasoning - because it was (improperly) slaughtered Lo Lishmah, should we do another Avodah Lo Lishmah?!
OTHER TEACHINGS OF RAVA
(Rava): If heirs inherited an Olah and it was offered b'Shinuy Kodesh, it is Pasul (it is Kosher, but the heirs must bring another Korban). If it was offered b'Shinuy Ba'alim, it is (fully) Kosher;
(Rav Pinchas brei d'Rav Ami): Shinuy Ba'alim applies even after the owner died.
Rav Ashi: Do you argue with Rava, and say that the heirs must bring another Korban?
Or, do you just mean that (if the heirs were Mevatel an Aseh,) if it was offered properly, they get Kaparah, but if there was Shinuy Ba'alim, it does not atone for them?
Rav Pinchas: I argue with Rava.
(Rava): An Olah is a gift (even though it is brought for Bitul Aseh, its essence is not a Korban of Kaparah):
If the owner did not repent, Hash-m does not desire his Korban - "Zevach Resha'im To'evah"!
If he repented, he already got Kaparah!
(Beraisa): If one transgressed an Aseh and repented, Hash-m immediately pardons him!
Conclusion: Olah is merely a gift.
Support (Beraisa - R. Shimon) Question: Why is a Chatas brought?
Objection: Surely, a Chatas comes to atone!
Correction: Rather, (if one must bring a Chatas and an Olah,) why is the Chatas brought before the Olah?
Answer: If someone sinned against the king, it is proper that first an advocate appeases the king, and then the sinner sends a gift.
A PESACH OFFERED SHE'LO LISHMAH IS NOT VALID
(Mishnah): (Any Zevach slaughtered Lo Lishmah is Kosher) except for Pesach or Chatas...
Question: What is the source that Pesach (Lo Lishmah) is Pasul?
Answer: "Shamor...*v'Asisa* Pesach" - all its Asiyos (actions) must be l'Shem Pesach.
Question: This teaches Shinuy Kodesh. What is the source for Shinuy Ba'alim?
Answer: "Va'Amartem Zevach Pesach Hu" - it must be Zavu'ach (slaughtered) l'Shem Pesach;
Since we do not need this to teach about Shinuy Kodesh (since we know this from the previous verse), we use it to teach about Shinuy Ba'alim.
Question: This teaches that Shinuy Kodesh and Shinuy Ba'alim are forbidden. What is the source that they disqualify a Pesach?
Answer #1: We learn from "v'Zavachta Pesach".
Question (Rav Safra): This verse teaches a different law!
(Rav Nachman): Mosar Pesach is offered like a Shelamim - "v'Zavachta Pesach...Tzon u'Vakar";
Question: Korban Pesach cannot be Bakar (cattle).It must be a lamb or kid (goat)!
Answer: Rather, it teaches that Mosar Pesach becomes a Korban that can be (any, i.e. male or female) cattle or flock, i.e. Shelamim.
Answer #2 (Rav Safra): Rather, "v'Zavachta Pesach..." teaches Rav Nachman's law;
"Shamor... v'Asisa Pesach" - forbids Shinuy Kodesh l'Chatchilah;
"Va'Amartem Zevach Pesach" forbids Shinuy Ba'alim l'Chatchilah;
"Hu" disqualifies the Korban in either case (Shinuy Kodesh or Ba'alim).
Question: This teaches about a Shinuy in Shechitah. What is the source for Shinuy in the other Avodos?
Answer #1: Since the Torah taught about Shechitah, we say that the same applies to the other Avodos.
Objection: (Rav Ashi): We do not say this!
Answer #2 (Rav Ashi): Rather, we learn from "Zos ha'Torah la'Olah... (ul'Zevach ha'Shelamim)";
(Beraisa): "B'Yom Tzavoso... Korbeneihem" (the verse after Zos ha'Torah) comes to include Bechor, Ma'aser and Pesach.
The Torah equates Pesach to Shelamim. Just like Shinuy Kodesh and Ba'alim are forbidden in Shelamim, also in Pesach;
Just all Avodos of Shelamim are the same regarding Shinuy (it is forbidden l'Chatchilah), all Avodos are the same regarding Pesach (Shinuy disqualifies).
Question: If so, what do we learn from "Hu"?
Answer (Beraisa): It says "Hu" regarding the Shechitah of Pesach to disqualify it (if it was Lo Lishmah);
Regarding Asham, it says "Hu" only after the Eimurim are burned,
(A Korban is not Pasul if the Eimurim are burned Lo Lishmah.) Even if they are not burned at all, the Korban is Kosher!