KIDUSHIN 73-75 - Sponsored by the Turkels of NY to merit a Refu'ah Sheleimah for Mindl Adina bas Yentl Yenta Yehudis and Yehuda Leib ben Tzipora Rochel and Avrohom Yeshaya ben Aviva, among the ailing of Klal Yisrael.

1)

TIMES THAT ONE PARTY IS BELIEVED

(a)

Question: Surely, he sold to the one who paid him!

(b)

Answer: The case is, both paid him. He says that he took from one willingly, and the other forced the money into his hand, and we do not know from which he took willingly.

(c)

A judge is believed to say which party won the case and which party must pay.

1.

This is only when the parties are in front of him. If not, he is not believed.

(d)

Question: We should look at the written verdict!

(e)

Answer: The case is, it was torn up.

(f)

Question: He should judge them again!

(g)

Answer: The case is, the verdict was based on Shuda (Rashi - the judge's estimation; Tosfos - the judge's discretion, whom he prefers to favor). Perhaps he will rule unlike his first ruling.

(h)

(Rav Nachman): Three are believed about a firstborn: the midwife, the father and the mother.

1.

The midwife is believed only right away. The mother is believed the first seven days. The father is believed forever (after this).

(i)

Support (Beraisa - Rebbi Yehudah): "Yakir" - the father will make known whom is his firstborn;

1.

This teaches that a man is believed to say which son is his firstborn. Similarly, he is believed to say that a certain son was born from a divorcee or Chalutzah (so the son is a Chalal);

2.

Chachamim say, he is not believed to say that his son is a Chalal.

2)

CHECKING SHETUKIM

(a)

(Mishnah): Aba Sha'ul would call a Shetuki 'Beduki' (checked).

(b)

Question: What does this mean?

(c)

Answer: We ask his mother. If she says that his father is Kosher, she is believed.

1.

This is like R. Gamliel (in the Mishnah below)

(d)

Question: We already learned this argument in another Mishnah! (Aba Shaul's opinion should have been taught there, with R. Gamliel's!)

1.

(Mishnah - R. Gamliel and R. Eliezer): If a single girl was pregnant and she said 'the father is Ploni. He is Kosher', she is believed;

2.

R. Yehoshua says, she is not believed.

3.

(Rav Yehudah): The Halachah follows R. Gamliel.

(e)

Answer: That Mishnah teaches that we believe the girl that she was not disqualified from Kehunah. Our Mishnah teaches that she is believed about the child.

(f)

Question: This is like the opinion that even R. Gamliel and R. Eliezer believe her only about herself, but not about the child. Aba Sha'ul teaches that she is believed even about the child;

1.

According to the opinion that R. Gamliel and R. Eliezer believe her even about the child, Aba Sha'ul does not teach anything new!

(g)

Answer: One might have thought that she is believed only when most men in the city are permitted to her. Aba Sha'ul teaches that she is permitted even when most are forbidden to her.

(h)

(Rava): The Halachah follows Aba Sha'ul.

3)

FORBIDDEN LINEAGES

(a)

(Mishnah): All who may not marry into the Kahal, are permitted to each other;

(b)

Rebbi Yehudah forbids.

(c)

R. Elazar says, Vadai (definite) Mamzerim may marry Vadai Mamzerim. Safek Mamzerim may not marry Vadai or Safek Mamzerim.

1.

Safek Mamzerim are Shetuki, Asufi and Kusi.

(d)

(Gemara) Question: What does 'all who may not marry into the Kahal' refer to?

1.

Suggestion: It refers to Mamzerim, Nesinim, Shetukim and Asufim.

2.

Rejection #1: The first Mishnah taught this!

3.

Rejection #2: If so, what does Rebbi Yehudah forbid?

i.

Suggestion: He forbids Safek Mamzerim from marrying Vadai Mamzerim.

ii.

Rejection: R. Elazar forbids this in the Seifa. This implies that Rebbi Yehudah permits it!

iii.

Suggestion: Rebbi Yehudah forbids a convert to marry a Mamzeres.

iv.

Rejection: The Mishnah did not mention converts. It discusses those who may not enter the Kahal!

74b----------------------------------------74b

(e)

Answer #1 (Rav Yehudah): The Mishnah teaches that all who may not enter Kehal Kehunah, e.g. a girl who converted before three years old (unlike R. Shimon), may marry each other (i.e. she may marry a convert).

1.

Question: Why didn't he say that it discusses a girl who converted above three years old, like R. Shimon?

2.

Answer: This would imply that had she converted before three years old, she would be (permitted to Kohanim, like R. Shimon, and) forbidden to other converts. This is not true.

(f)

Objection #1: The rule of the Mishnah (like Rav Yehudah explains) is not always true!

1.

A widow (may not marry a Kohen Gadol, and a) divorcee, Chalalah, or Zonah cannot marry Kohanim. They are not permitted to everyone else who is forbidden (such as Mamzerim)!

(g)

Objection #2: The Mishnah implies that someone permitted to Kehunah (e.g. a convert, who may marry a Bas Kohen) is forbidden to Pesulim. (Rav Yehudah holds that the Tana permits a Mamzer to a convert, i.e. converts are not considered Kehal, so) a convert may marry a Mamzeres!

(h)

Answer #2 (R. Nasan bar Oshiya): The Mishnah says that anyone who may not marry his daughter to a Kohen, e.g. a convert who married a convert, according to R. Eliezer ben Yakov, may marry other such people (converts).

(i)

Objection: We do not permit all such people (whose daughters may not marry Kohanim) to each other!

1.

Question #1: If a Chalal married a Bas Yisrael, his daughter (a Chalalah) may not marry a Kohen, yet a Chalal cannot marry a Mamzeres!

2.

Answer: The Mishnah is like R. Dostai ben Yehudah (who says that children of a Chalal from a Bas Yisrael are Kesheirim).

3.

Question #2: If a Chalal married a Chalalah, all agree that his daughter is a Chalalah, who may not marry a Kohen, yet a Chalal may not marry a Mamzeres!

(j)

Objection #2: The Mishnah implies that one whose daughter is permitted to Kehunah (e.g. a convert who married a Bas Yisrael) is forbidden to Pesulim. A convert may marry a Mamzeres (for R. Nasan holds that the Tana holds that converts are not considered Kehal)!

(k)

Answer #3 (Rav Nachman): The Tana'im argue about whether or not Mamzerim result from siblings that marry each other.

1.

The first Tana says that the children are Mamzerim. Rebbi Yehudah says that Mamzerim result from adultery, but not from siblings.

(l)

Objection: We already learned this argument in another Mishnah!

1.

(Mishnah - R. Akiva): Mamzerim result from any Bi'ah forbidden by a Lav;

2.

Shimon ha'Teimani says, they result from any Ervah punishable by Kares. The Halachah follows him;

3.

R. Yehoshua says, they result from any Ervah punishable by death.

(m)

Answer #4 (Rava): The Tana'im argue about Amoni and Mo'avi converts.

1.

The first Tana says that anyone who may not enter the Kahal, e.g. an Amoni or Mo'avi convert, may marry other such people.

(n)

Question: If so, why does Rebbi Yehudah forbid?

(o)

Answer: It means, even though Rebbi Yehudah forbids a convert to marry a Mamzeres, that refers only to converts permitted to Yisre'elim;

1.

He agrees that Amonim and Mo'avim, who are forbidden to Yisrael, may marry Mamzerim.

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