KIDUSHIN 73-75 - Sponsored by the Turkels of NY to merit a Refu'ah Sheleimah for Mindl Adina bas Yentl Yenta Yehudis and Yehuda Leib ben Tzipora Rochel and Avrohom Yeshaya ben Aviva, among the ailing of Klal Yisrael.

1)

FORBIDDEN CONVERTS

(a)

(Beraisa): If a boy above nine years old descends from converts of Amon, Mo'av, Mitzrayim or Edom, or is a Kusi, Nasin, Chalal or Mamzer, if he has Bi'ah with a Bas Kohen, Bas Levi or Bas Yisrael, he disqualifies her (from Kehunah);

(b)

Rebbi Yosi says, someone disqualifies if and only if his children are disqualified;

(c)

R. Shimon ben Gamliel says, if a man's daughter is permitted to a Kohen, his widow is also. If his daughter is forbidden, so is his widow.

(d)

Question: What do the first Tana and Rebbi Yosi argue about?

(e)

Answer (R. Yochanan): They argue about a Mitzri Sheni (who has Bi'ah with a Bas Yisrael). They both learn from a Kohen Gadol, who disqualifies a widow;

1.

The first Tana learns, just like a Kohen Gadol is forbidden to a widow, and he disqualifies her, any forbidden Bi'ah disqualifies a woman (including a Mitzri Sheni who has Bi'ah with a Yisre'elis).

2.

Rebbi Yosi learns, just like children of a Kohen Gadol from a widow are Pasul, and he disqualifies her, anyone whose children are forbidden disqualifies a woman.

i.

Children of a second-generation Mitzri are Kesheirim - "the third generation of children born to them will enter the Kahal"

(f)

(Mishnah - R. Shimon ben Gamliel): If a man's daughter is permitted to a Kohen, his widow is also. If his daughter is forbidden, so is his widow.

(g)

Question: What do Rebbi Yosi and R. Shimon ben Gamliel argue about?

(h)

Answer (Ula): They argue about an Amoni or Mo'avi convert (who has Bi'ah with a Bas Yisrael). They both learn from a Kohen Gadol, who disqualifies a widow.

1.

Rebbi Yosi says, just like children of a Kohen Gadol from a widow are disqualified, and he disqualifies her, anyone whose children are forbidden (e.g. an Amoni), he disqualifies a woman.

2.

R. Shimon ben Gamliel says, just like all children of a Kohen Gadol from a widow are disqualified, and he disqualifies her, anyone whose children are all forbidden, he disqualifies a woman.

i.

Only sons of an Amoni are forbidden. The Torah forbade Amoni and Mo'avi, but not Amonis and Mo'avis.

(i)

(Rav Chisda): All agree that the widow of an Isah (a family in which a Safek Chalal was mixed in) is forbidden to Kehunah.

1.

The most lenient of the above Tana'im is R. Shimon ben Gamliel. He said 'if a man's daughter is permitted to a Kohen, his widow is also. If his daughter is forbidden, so is his widow.' This excludes the widow of an Isah, who is forbidden to Kehunah.

(j)

Rav Chisda teaches (that the Tana'im of our Beraisa hold) unlike the following Tana'im.

1.

(Mishnah): R. Yehoshua and Rebbi Yehudah ben Beseira testified that the widow of an Isah is permitted to Kehunah.

2.

Question: Why do they permit her?

3.

Answer: It is a double Safek. Perhaps she did not marry the Safek Chalal. And even if she did, perhaps he was really Kosher.

2)

SAFEK MAMZERIM

(a)

(Mishnah - R. Elazar): Vadai Mamzerim may marry Vadai Mamzerim. (Safek Mamzerim may not marry Vadai or Safek Mamzerim.)

(b)

(Rav Yehudah citing Rav): The Halachah follows R. Elazar.

(c)

Objection (Shmuel): Hillel taught that 10 lineages came up from Bavel, and all can intermarry. How can you say that the Halachah follows R. Elazar?!

(d)

Contradiction (in both Rav and Shmuel): If an Arusah became pregnant, Rav says that the child is a Mamzer, and Shmuel says that he is a Shetuki;

1.

Rav says that the child is a Mamzer, and is permitted to a Mamzeres;

2.

Shmuel says that he is a Shetuki, and is forbidden to a Mamzeres!

(e)

Answer #1: We must switch the opinions. Rav says that the child is a Shetuki. Shmuel says, he is a Mamzer.

(f)

Question: Why did Rav and Shmuel need to say this? We know this from how they explained our Mishnah!

(g)

Answer: They needed to teach both:

1.

Had they taught only about the Mishnah (the child of a single girl), one might have thought that Rav forbids the child to a Mamzeres because most men are permitted to the mother (so the child is probably Kosher). Most men are forbidden to an Arusah, so one might have thought that Rav would agree that the child is a Mamzer Vadai and may marry a Mamzeres!

2.

Had they taught only about an Arusah, one might have thought that Rav forbids the child to a Mamzeres because we assume that she is pregnant from her husband. Regarding a single woman, he would agree that the child is a Mamzer Vadai and permitted to a Mamzeres!

(h)

Answer #2: Do not switch the opinions. Rav did not call the child a Mamzer to permit him to a Mamzeres, rather, to forbid him to a Bas Yisrael;

(i)

Answer #2A: Shmuel called the child a Shetuki because he is forbidden to a Bas Yisrael.

(j)

Objection: If so, he agrees with Rav!

(k)

Answer #2B: Rather, Shmuel teaches that we are Mashtik (silence) him from Kehunah (serving in the Mikdash, Terumah..., even if the Arus is a Kohen).

(l)

Objection: This is obvious! We do not consider him even a proper Yisrael. All the more so, he is not a proper Kohen!

(m)

Answer #2C: Rather, Shmuel teaches that we silence him from inheriting his father.

(n)

Question: This is obvious. We are not sure that the Arus is his father!

(o)

Answer: The Chidush is, even if he took the money, we force him to return it.

(p)

Answer #2D: Rather, Shmuel said that he is a Shetuki, i.e. a Beduki. We ask his mother and she is believed to say that he is Kosher.

(q)

Question: Shmuel already said that the Halachah follows R. Gamliel (that we believe her). Why did he need to say this again?

1.

(Mishnah - R. Gamliel and R. Eliezer): If a single girl was pregnant, and she said, the father is Ploni, and he is Kosher, she is believed;

2.

R. Yehoshua says, she is not believed.

3.

(Shmuel): The Halachah follows R. Gamliel.

(r)

Answer: Shmuel needed to rule also here that she is believed.

1.

Had he said so only in that Mishnah (where she is single), one might have thought that that is because most men are permitted to her; but when she is Mekudeshes, she is not believed. He teaches that this is not so.

3)

WHY KUSIM MAY NOT MARRY ONE ANOTHER

(a)

(Beraisa - R. Elazar): Similarly, a Kusi may not marry a Kusis.

(b)

Question: What is the reason?

(c)

Answer #1 (Rav Yosef): Chachamim decreed that they are like converts after 10 generations.

1.

(Beraisa): Ten generations of converts may marry Mamzerim. After this, it is forbidden (for people do not recall that he descends from converts);

2.

Some say, he is permitted until people (actually) forget that he comes from converts.

(d)

Objection (Abaye): There is different, for the conversion was forgotten, but the Mamzeres is known;

1.

Regarding the Kusim, the man and the woman are the same! (If people think he is Kosher, they will think she is also!)

(e)

Answer #2 (Rav Dimi): R. Elazar holds like R. Yishmael, who holds like R. Akiva.

75b----------------------------------------75b

1.

He holds like R. Yishmael, who says that the Kusim's conversion was (insincere, and hence) invalid. It was only to avoid being eaten by lions;

2.

R. Yishmael holds like R. Akiva, who says that the child of a Nochri or slave from a Yisre'elis is a Mamzer.

(f)

Objection: R. Yishmael does not hold like R. Akiva!

1.

(R. Yochanan citing R. Yishmael): A Bas Kohen, Bas Levi or Bas Yisrael who had Bi'ah with a Nochri or slave is disqualified from Kehunah.

i.

"A Bas Kohen who will be widowed or divorced without children (resumes eating Terumah)." This is only after she was married to a Yisrael, from whom one can be widowed or divorced. This excludes a Nochri or slave (to whom Kidushin, divorce and widowhood do not apply. (Through Bi'ah,) they permanently disqualify her from Terumah.)

ii.

If R. Yishmael held like R. Akiva, the child is a Mamzer, surely he disqualifies her!

(g)

Correction: R. Elazar holds like R. Yishmael, who says that the Kusim's conversion was invalid; R. Elazar also holds like R. Akiva, who says that the child of a Nochri or slave from a Yisre'elis is a Mamzer.

(h)

Objection: R. Elazar does not hold like R. Akiva!

1.

(Beraisa - R. Elazar): Even though Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel argue about co-wives (of a Yevamah who is Ervah to the Yavam), they agree that a Mamzer results only from Ervah punishable by Kares.

(i)

Answer #3 (Ravin): There is a three-way argument:

1.

R. Yishmael holds that the Kusim's conversion was invalid, and the Kohanim who intermarried with them were (already) disqualified. That is why it was forbidden to marry Kusim;

i.

(Rabah bar bar Chanah) "He made mi'Ketzosam (some of them) priests of the Bamos (private altars)" - from the Kotzim (thorns, i.e. disqualified ones) among them.

2.

R. Akiva holds that they sincerely converted, and the Kohanim who intermarried with them were Kesheirim;

i.

(Rabah bar bar Chanah): "He made mi'Ketzosam priests of the Bamos" - from the elite of the nation.

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