GITIN 19 - Two weeks of study material have been dedicated by Mrs. Estanne Abraham Fawer to honor the Yahrzeit of her father, Rav Mordechai ben Eliezer Zvi (Rabbi Morton Weiner) Z'L, who passed away on 18 Teves 5760. May the merit of supporting and advancing Dafyomi study -- which was so important to him -- during the weeks of his Yahrzeit serve as an Iluy for his Neshamah.

1)

(a)Our Mishnah validates all kinds of inks for writing a Get, specifically mentioning ink, orpiment and Sikra. How does Rabah bar bar Chanah define 'Sikra'?

(b)The Tana also permits Kumus and Kankantum (which Rabah bar bar Chanah Amar Shmuel defines as vitriol, also known as 'copper-water'- see Tosfos). What is 'Kumus'?

(c)Which qualification renders ink Kasher to write a Get?

(d)What may one therefore not use?

1)

(a)Our Mishnah validates all kinds of inks for writing a Get, specifically mentioning ink, orpiment and Sikra. Rabah bar bar Chanah defines 'Sikra' as - red lead (that is used as a paint).

(b)The Tana also permits Kumus and Kankantum (which Rabah bar bar Chanah Amar Shmuel defines as vitriol, also known as 'copper-water' - see Tosfos). 'Kumus' is - sap.

(c)The qualification that renders ink Kasher to write a Get is - its lasting quality.

(d)One may therefore not use - fruit-juice or anything that dissipates quickly.

2)

(a)The Tana validates any surface on which to write a Get, among them an olive leaf and the horn of a cow or the hand of a slave. What condition must the husband fulfill before the latter cases will be Kasher?

(b)Elaborating on our Mishnah 'u've'Chol Davar ha'Miskayem', R. Chanina cites a Beraisa that includes 'Mei Tarya ve'Aftza'. What does this mean?

(c)Which two kinds of surface does Rebbi Yossi Hagelili invalidate in lieu of parchment?

(d)Rebbi Chiya cites a Beraisa which includes Eiver, Shachor and Shichor. Eiver is lead. What is ...

1. ... 'Shachor'?

2. ... 'Shichor'?

2)

(a)The Tana validates any surface on which to write a Get, among them an olive leaf and the horn of a cow or on the hand of a slave. The latter cases will only be Kasher - if he presents the woman with the cow and the slave.

(b)Elaborating on our Mishnah 'u've'Chol Davar ha'Miskayem', R. Chanina cites a Beraisa that includes 'Mei Tarya ve'Aftza' - meaning either rain-water (from the roof - Tosfos Yom-Tov) or water in which one has soaked gall-nuts (though the text 'Mei Tarya ve'Aftza' is unclear).

(c)Rebbi Yossi Hagelili invalidates in lieu of parchment - anything that has life (e.g. animals) and food.

(d)Rebbi Chiya cites a Beraisa which includes Eiver, Shachor and Shichor. Eiver is lead ...

1. ... 'Shachor' - charcoal.

2. ... and 'Shichor' - vitriol.

3)

(a)If, on Shabbos, someone writes with black ink over letters that are written in red paint, Rebbi Yochanan and Resh Lakish obligate him to bring two Chata'os. Why is that?

(b)What will be the Din if he writes with ink over ink or red paint over red paint?

(c)Should he write with red paint over ink, there are two opinions as to whether he is Chayav or Patur. On what grounds might he ...

1. ... Chayav?

2. ... Patur?

(d)On what grounds does the first opinion disagree with the latter argument?

3)

(a)If, on Shabbos, someone writes with black ink over letters that are written in red paint, Rebbi Yochanan and Resh Lakish obligate him to bring two Chata'os - one for erasing (the original letters), the other for writing (the new ones).

(b)If he writes with ink over ink or red paint over red paint - he is Patur, because he neither erased nor wrote.

(c)Should he write with red paint over ink, there are two opinions as to whether he is Chayav or Patur. He might be ...

1. ... Chayav - for erasing the original letters.

2. ... Patur - because he spoilt them.

(d)The first opinion disagrees with the latter argument - because, seeing as the new letters are visible, he did not really spoil the original ones.

4)

(a)Resh Lakish asked Rebbi Yochanan whether, in a case where the witnesses are unable to sign their names, one writes their names in red paint, and they then overwrite them in ink. Why did Resh Lakish think that it should be valid?

(b)In light of Rebbi Yochanan's previous ruling, how did he then justify his reply to Resh Lakish's She'eilah (that this is not considered writing)?

(c)Rav proposes scratching the witnesses names on the parchment and inviting the witnesses to sign on the cuts. What is the problem with Shmuel, who suggests writing their names with lead for them to overwrite? What does the Tana of the Beraisa quoted by Rebbi Chiya say about a Get that is written in lead (Eiver), charcoal or vitriol?

(d)How do we reconcile Shmuel with R. Chiya's Beraisa? What did he mean by 'Eiver'?

4)

(a)Resh Lakish asked Rebbi Yochanan whether - based on the joint ruling of Rebbi Yochanan and himself (cited earlier), that someone who does this on Shabbos is Chayav, there where the witnesses are unable to sign their names, one may write their names in red paint, and they then overwrite it in ink.

(b)In spite of his previous ruling, Rebbi Yochanan justified his reply (that this was not considered writing) - on the grounds that he himself was not sure that it was considered writing, that his original ruling was merely le'Chumra and that, in the time of the Beis-Hamikdash, he would not have relied on it to obligate a Korban. In any event, one can certainly not rely on it to validate a Get (le'Kula).

(c)Rav proposes scratching the witnesses names on the parchment and inviting the witnesses to sign on the cuts. The problem with Shmuel, who suggests writing their names with lead for them to overwrite is - that this would mean that writing with lead is not called writing, whereas the Tana of the Beraisa quoted by Rebbi Chiya validates a Get that is written in lead (Eiver), charcoal or vitriol.

(d)We reconcile Shmuel with R. Chiya's Beraisa - by defining Eiver (not as plain lead, but) as water in which ground lead was soaked (which is not considered writing).

5)

(a)And what is the discrepancy between Rebbi Avahu, who validates writing the witnesses' names in Mei Milin (water in which gall-nuts have been soaked), with the Beraisa cited by Rebbi Chanina, which validates a Get that is written with 'Mei Tarya ve'Aftza' (which, as we explained, is synonymous with Mei Milin)?

(b)How do we resolve this discrepancy? When is Mei Milin considerd writing, and when is it not?

(c)The final suggestion is that of Rav Papa. What did Rav Pap advise Papa Tura'ah, to do with regard to witnesses who did not know how to write?

(d)What was Papa Tura'ah' profession?

5)

(a)The discrepancy between Rebbi Avahu, who validates writing the witnesses names in Mei Milin (water in which gall-nuts have been soaked), with the Beraisa cited by Chanina, which validates a Get that is written with 'Mei Tarya ve'Aftza' (which, as we explained, is synonymous with Mei Milin) is - the fact that, according to the Tana, writing with Mei Milin, is considered writing. In that case, how can Rebbi Avahu permit the witnesses to overwrite Mei Milin, which will then be 'writing on top of writing'?

(b)We resolve this discrepancy - by establishing the former by parchment that was treated with 'Aftza', and overwriting it with Mei Milin will not be considered writing (due to the principle 'Ein Mei Milin al-Gabei Mei Milin').

(c)The final suggestion is that of Rav Papa, who advised Papa Tura'ah - to sign with spit the names of the witnesses who did not know how to write with spit, and allow them to overwrite it with ink.

(d)Papa Tura'ah was an ox dealer, as his name suggests.

6)

(a)What did Rav Kahana do with someone who used this method of signing with regard to Sh'taros other than Gitin?

(b)What should one then do if witnesses do not know how to sign their name?

(c)On what grounds are Gitin different than other Sh'taros in this regard?

(d)Which of the above opinions is substantiated by a Beraisa?

6)

(a)When someone used this method of signing with regard to Sh'taros other than Gitin - Rav Kahana gave him lashes.

(b)If witnesses do not know how to sign their names - then one should look for other witnesses.

(c)Gitin are different however - because sometimes it is difficult to find other witnesses, and we are concerned that the woman will remain an Agunah.

(d)It is the opinion of Rav (scratching the witnesses' names on the parchment and inviting the witnesses to sign on the cuts) - that is substantiated by a Beraisa.

19b----------------------------------------19b

7)

(a)What does one do with witnesses who do not know how to read (the Sh'tar that they are signing), but who do know how to sign their names?

(b)With regard to pre-signing, Raban Shimon ben Gamliel differentiates between Gitin and other Sh'taros, as we learned already above. What does the Tana Kama say?

(c)Rava rules like Raban Shimon ben Gamliel. How does Rav Gamda quote Rava?

(d)If, as Rav Gamda maintains, the Halachah is like the Rabbanan, then why did Rav Kahana (on the previous Amud) give Malkos to someone who validated witnesses who were unable to sign?

7)

(a)If witnesses do not know how to read (the Sh'tar that they are signing), but do know how to sign their names - we read the Sh'tar to them before they sign, as Raban Shimon ben Gamliel states in the above Beraisa.

(b)With regard to pre-signing, Raban Shimon ben Gamliel differentiates between Gitin and other Sh'taros, as we learned already above - whereas the Tana Kama permits pre-signing for witnesses who do not know how to sign by all Sh'taros.

(c)Rava rules like Raban Shimon ben Gamliel. According to Rav Gamda however - Rava rules like the Rabbanan (the Tana Kama).

(d)When Rav Gamda quoting Rava, ruled like the Rabbanan, he was referring to witnesses who know how to write but not how to read - whereas when Rav Kahana (on the previous Amud) gave Malkos (like Raban Shimon ben Gamliel), it was to someone who validated witnesses who were able to read but not to write.

8)

(a)Why did Rav Yehudah have trouble in reading the Get he was about to sign or corroborate?

(b)What did Ula tell him? Why did he quote Rebbi Elazar and Rav Nachman?

(c)To whom will this concession not apply?

(d)What title did Rebbi Elazar enjoy?

8)

(a)Rav Yehudah had trouble in reading the Get he was about to sign or corroborate - due to old age.

(b)Ula told him - to take his cue from Rebbi Elazar and Rav Nachman, who had Sh'taros read to them by the members of their respective Batei-Din.

(c)This concession will not apply - to anyone whom the Dayanim do not respect like Rav Nachman (who was appointed Dayan by the Resh Galusa, to whom he was related). Because only then can the witness or remaining Dayan rely on the faithful reading of the Dayanim. Anyone not of the caliber of Rav Nachman, or any Beis-Din not of the caliber of his Beis-Din is not eligible to do this.

(d)Rebbi Elazar enjoyed the title - of 'Master of Eretz Yisrael', because for one, he was a greater Baki (had a wider knowledge) than his colleagues.

9)

(a)What is a Sh'tar Parsa'ah?

(b)What would Rav Papa do when a Sh'tar Parsa'ah came before him (to corroborate)?

(c)How do we reconcile Rav Papa with what we learned in the first Perek, that with a Sh'tar Parsa'ah one may only claim from B'nei Chorin (but not from Meshubadim)?

9)

(a)A Sh'tar Parsa'ah is one that is written in the Persian courts, in Persian and signed by Persian Nochri witnesses)

(b)When a Sh'tar Parsa'ah came before him (to corroborate) - he would make each witness read the Sh'tar not in the presence of the other, and in an unofficial capacity.

(c)We reconcile Rav Papa with what we learned in the first Perek, that with a Sh'tar Parsa'ah one may only claim from B'nei Chorin (but not from Meshubadim) - by establishing the latter by a Sh'tar that was written independently of the courts.

10)

(a)Huna bar Nasan quoting Ameimar, told Rav Ashi that a Sh'tar Parsa'ah signed by Jews is valid even to claim from Meshabadim. Besides the witnesses being able to read Persian and the Sh'tar being written on a surface that does not allow forgery, what third requirement did Rav Ashi stipulate for the Sh'tar to be Kasher?

(b)What did Huna bar Nasan reply to Rav Ashi's second query (regarding a Sh'tar that does not allow forgery)?

(c)Seeing as the Sh'tar was without flaw, what was Huna bar Nasan's Chidush?

(d)But that too, is a Mishnah in 'ha'Megaresh' 'Get she'Kasvo Ivris ve'Eidav Yevanis ... , Kasher'? So what is now Huna bar Nasan's Chidush? Why might there be a distinction between Gitin and other Sh'taros?

10)

(a)Huna bar Nasan quoting Ameimar, told Rav Ashi that a Sh'tar Parsa'ah signed by Jews is valid even to claim from Meshabadim. Besides the witnesses being able to read Persian and the Sh'tar being written on a surface that does not allow forgery, Rav Ashi also stipulated that, for the Sh'tar to be Kasher - it requires the main points to be repeated briefly in the last line.

(b)In reply to Rav Ashi's second query (regarding a Sh'tar that does not allow forgery) - Huna bar Nasan assured him that the parchment on which the Sh'tar was written had been treated with gall-nuts.

(c)Despite the fact that the Sh'tar was without flaw, Huna bar Nasan is coming to teach us - that a Sh'tar that is written in a foreign language is Kasher.

(d)Granted, that too, is a Mishnah in 'ha'Megaresh' 'Get she'Kasvo Ivris ve'Eidav Yevanis ... , Kasher', we may nevertheless have thought that - this is confined to Gitin, where Chazal might have been lenient because of Agunah, as we have already learned a number of times, such as here, where it may be difficult to find witnesses who are conversant with Lashon ha'Kodesh), but that other Sh'taros will only be Kasher if they are written in Lashon ha'Kodesh.

11)

(a)What does Shmuel say about a man who gave his a wife a blank piece of paper saying 'Harei Zeh Gitech!'?

(b)How do we know that the Sh'tar in question was not treated with Afeitzim?

(c)What does the Tana of the Beraisa say about a man who gave his wife a Get and who informed her, after she had tossed it into the fire, that it was a Sh'tar Pasim or a Sh'tar Amanah?

(d)What is ...

1. ... a Sh'tar Pasim?

2. ... a Sh'tar Amanah?

11)

(a)Shmuel says that if a man gave his a wife a blank piece of paper saying 'Harei Zeh Gitech!' - she is divorced, because he may have written the Get with Mei Milin (which is basically invisible unless treated with a special water).

(b)The Sh'tar in question cannot have been treated with Afeitzim, because if it had been - it would be a case of 'Mei Milin al-Gabei Mei Milin', which is Pasul.

(c)The Tana of the Beraisa says that if a man gave his wife a Get and who informed her, after she had tossed it into the fire, that it was a Sh'tar Pasim or a Sh'tar Amanah - the Get is valid, and he has no right to forbid her to marry.

(d)A Sh'tar ...

1. ... Pasim is - (like Sh'tar Piyusim) a Sh'tar where the creditor asked a close friend between whom there is complete trust, to write him a Sh'tar stating that he (the friend) owes him money, to convey the impression that he is a wealthy man.

2. ... Amanah is - a document of loan written by a potential debtor, who then handed it to the creditor on the understanding that he will not claim from him unless the loan actually took place.

12)

(a)What Kashya does the above Beraisa pose on Shmuel (with regard to the case of the blank Get)?

(b)We answer that Shmuel only validates the Get if, after checking, using the appropriate dye, the letters ultimately appeared (which is not possible once the Get no longer exists). What problem do we have with this answer?

(c)How do we resolve the problem?

(d)What are then the ramifications of Shmuel's ruling?

12)

(a)The Kashya the above Beraisa poses on Shmuel who just validated a blank Get is - why the Tana did not rather present the case of a blank Sh'tar which the woman then tossed into the fire, since that would have been even a bigger Chidush?

(b)We answer that Shmuel only validates the Get if, after checking with the appropriate dye (see Tosfos DH 'Maya'), the letters ultimately appeared (which is not possible once the Get no longer exists). The problem with this is - that if at the time when he handed his wife the Get, the writing was not visible, the Get will be Pasul, irrespective of whether it appeared later or not.

(c)We resolve the problem however - by pointing out that Shmuel also made a point of using the term 'Chayshinan', by which he meant that he suspected that the invisible ink may not have been so invisible after all. Perhaps initially, it was faintly visible, in which case, the Get would have been Kasher.

(d)The ramifications of Shmuel's ruling are - that the woman is a Safek Megureshes. Consequently, should her husband die, she will be forbidden to marry a Kohen, and if necessary, will be required to perform Chalitzah with his brother, but not Yibum.

13)

(a)Ravina, quoting Mereimar in the name of Rav Dimi, requires the witnesses to read the Get. Which witnesses?

(b)How do we query him from the Beraisa that we just cited (regarding a man who gave his wife a Get and who then informed her, after she had tossed it into the fire, that it was a Sh'tar Pasim or a Sh'tar Amanah)?

(c)So how will Shmuel explain the Beraisa? What is then the Chidush?

13)

(a)Ravina, quoting Mereimar in the name of Rav Dimi, requires the witnesses - who see the handing over of the Get, to read it.

(b)We query him from the Beraisa that we just cited (regarding a man who gave his wife a Get and who then informed her, after she had tossed it into the fire, that it was a Sh'tar Pasim or a Sh'tar Amanah). If the witnesses were obligated to read it, we ask - how can the husband then claim that it was a Sh'tar Pasim or a Sh'tar Amanah?

(c)Shmuel therefore explains that the Tana is speaking - when after reading the Get, one of the witnesses placed it in his pocket before handing it to the woman, giving rise to the suspicion that he may have swapped the Get for another Sh'tar. The Tana's Chidush is that we do not suspect that.

14)

(a)When the 'Get' that a man threw his wife fell among barrels of wine and after searching, they discovered a Mezuzah, on what grounds did Rav Nachman declare the missing 'Get' to be synonymous with the Mezuzah?

(b)Why would he have ruled differently, had they discovered two or three Mezuzos?

(c)Then why did they fail to find the Get?

14)

(a)When the 'Get' that a man threw his wife fell among barrels of wine and after searching, they discovered a Mezuzah, Rav Nachman declared the lost 'Get' to be synonymous with the Mezuzah - because it is unusual to find Mezuzos among barrels of wine. Presumably therefore, the Mezuzah that they discovered is the one he threw, and there was never a Get there is the first place.

(b)Had they discovered two or three Mezuzos, he would have ruled - that, just as they found one Mezuzah there, maybe there was another one there, and the Get that he threw her really was a Get.

(c)The reason that they failed to find the Get is - because it was removed by mice.

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