GITIN 19 - Two weeks of study material have been dedicated by Mrs. Estanne Abraham Fawer to honor the Yahrzeit of her father, Rav Mordechai ben Eliezer Zvi (Rabbi Morton Weiner) Z'L, who passed away on 18 Teves 5760. May the merit of supporting and advancing Dafyomi study -- which was so important to him -- during the weeks of his Yahrzeit serve as an Iluy for his Neshamah.

1)

A GET SIGNED AFTER IT WAS WRITTEN

(a)

Question: Reish Lakish said that R. Shimon permits only when they sign that night. If they sign (after this) during the next 10 days, it is Pasul!

(b)

Answer: R. Yehoshua ben Levi explains R. Shimon like R. Yochanan does (that if they sign within 10 days, it is valid).

(c)

Question: R. Yochanan says that only two are witnesses, and the rest may sign at any time!

(d)

Answer: Regarding that, he holds like Reish Lakish.

2)

WHAT MAY BE USED TO WRITE A GET

(a)

(Mishnah): We may write with anything, e.g. with ink, yellow dye, red dye, sap, vitriol or anything that lasts;

1.

We may not write with drinks, fruit juice or anything that does not last.

(b)

We may write on anything, e.g. on an olive leaf, on a cow's horn or a slave's hand (and he must give to her the cow or slave);

1.

R. Yosi ha'Glili says, we may not write on something living, nor on food.

(c)

(Gemara) Question: What does 'anything that lasts' come to include?

(d)

Answer: It alludes to the law of R. Chanina's Beraisa, that if he wrote with rainwater (alternatively - water in which gall-nuts were soaked) or with gall-nuts, the Get is valid.

(e)

(R. Chiya - Beraisa): If he wrote with lead, coals, or vitriol, the Get is valid.

(f)

(R. Yochanan and Reish Lakish): If one writes with black ink over red dye on Shabbos, he is liable for writing and for erasing;

(g)

If he writes with black ink over black ink, or red dye over red dye, he is exempt;

(h)

If one writes with red dye over black ink, some say that he is liable, and some say exempt:

1.

Some say that he is liable, for he erases (covers) what was written;

2.

Some exempt, for he ruins the writing.

3)

WITNESSES WHO DO NOT KNOW HOW TO SIGN

(a)

Question (Reish Lakish): If witnesses do not know how to sign their names, may we write their names in red dye, and they will write over this in blank ink?

(b)

Answer (R. Yochanan): No.

(c)

Question (Reish Lakish): You taught us that regarding Shabbos, the top writing is considered writing!

(d)

Answer (R. Yochanan): Should we rely on our estimation in practice?! (What we said regarding Shabbos was not taught to be followed in practice, now that we lack Korbanos and Misas Beis Din.)

(e)

Question: What do we do if witnesses do not know how to sign their names?

(f)

Answer #1 (Rav): We scratch outlines of the letters of their names on a blank paper, and they fill in the outlines with ink.

(g)

Answer #2 (Shmuel): We write their names with lead, and they write over our writing.

1.

Question: R. Chiya taught that writing with lead is a valid writing! (Therefore, writing on top of this is not called writing!)

2.

Answer: Scratching the paper with lead is not valid writing. Writing with water in which lead was soaked is valid (Rashi; Tosfos Rid explains oppositely.)

(h)

Answer #3 (R. Avahu): We write their names with Mei Milin (water in which gall-nuts or acorns were soaked), and they write over our writing).

1.

Question: R. Chanina taught that writing with Mei Milin is a valid writing (so writing on top of this is not called writing)!

2.

Answer: R. Chanina discusses writing on paper that was not treated with gall-nuts. R. Avahu discusses when the paper was treated with gall-nuts;

i.

In the latter case, the writing is Pasul, for Mei Milin does not show on paper treated with gall-nuts (since they are virtually the same color).

(i)

Answer #4 (Rav Papa): We write their names in saliva.

1.

A case occurred in which Rav Papa used saliva to enable Papa Tura'ah to sign.

(j)

All these leniencies are only for Gitin, but not by other documents.

1.

Someone helped the witnesses sign a monetary document in such a way, and Rav Kahana excommunicated him.

19b----------------------------------------19b

(k)

Support (for Rav - Beraisa): If witnesses do not know how to sign their names, we scratch outlines of the letters of their names on a blank paper, and they put ink within the outlines;

1.

R. Shimon ben Gamliel says, this is only for Gitei Nashim. For Gitin of freedom and other documents, witnesses may sign only if they know how to read and sign.

(l)

Question: Why does R. Shimon mention being able to read? The first Tana did not discuss this!

(m)

Answer: The Mishnah is abbreviated. It means as follows: If witnesses do not know how to read, we read the document aloud for them. If they do not know how to sign...

1.

R. Shimon ben Gamliel says, this is only for Gitei Nashim. For Gitin of freedom and other documents, witnesses may sign only if they know how to read and sign.

(n)

(R. Elazar): R. Shimon holds that we are lenient about Gitin of women, to avoid Igun (lest women be unable to remarry because there were not witnesses who knew how to sign).

(o)

(Rava): The Halachah follows R. Shimon.

(p)

(Rav Gamda, citing Rava): The Halachah does not follow R. Shimon.

(q)

Question: Does he mean that the Halachah follows Chachamim? Someone helped the witnesses sign a monetary document in this way, and Rav Kahana excommunicated him!

(r)

Answer: The Halachah does not follow R. Shimon regarding reading, i.e. if the witnesses can sign but cannot read, we read the document aloud for them, even by other documents.

4)

DOCUMENTS IN OTHER LANGUAGES

(a)

Rav Yehudah was paining himself to read a document.

(b)

Ula: Why struggle? R. Elazar is the greatest Chacham of Eretz Yisrael, and they read documents in front of him, and he signs. Rav Nachman asks a judge's scribe to read before him, and then he signs;

1.

(Relying on one person reading) is permitted only if a judge's scribe reads, but not any scribe. It is permitted only for a Chacham like Rav Nachman (who was appointed by the Reish Galusa (Exilarch), who was his father-in-law).

(c)

When a Persian document written by the Nochri courts would come in front of Rav Papa, he would ask two Nochrim to read it in front of him, in different rooms. They did not know why he wanted them to read it;

1.

After this he would accept the document, and use it to collect even from Meshubadim (property that the borrower sold).

(d)

(Rav Ashi): We use a Persian document signed by Yisre'elim to collect even from Meshubadim.

(e)

Question: The witnesses do not know how to read it!

(f)

Answer: The case is, they know.

(g)

Question: We require writing that cannot be (erased and) forged!

(h)

Answer: The paper was treated with gall-nuts. (Therefore, the writing cannot be erased.)

(i)

Question: The last line of the document must summarize the document!

(j)

Answer: It does.

(k)

Question: If so, what is Rav Ashi's Chidush? A Mishnah teaches that a document may be in any language!

1.

(Mishnah): If a Get was written in Hebrew, and the witnesses signed in Yevanis, or vice-versa, it is valid.

(l)

Answer: One might have thought that we only allow this for Gitin, like the Mishnah discusses. Rav Ashi teaches that we allow it for all documents.

5)

CASES IN WHICH WE ARE CONCERNED LEST A GET WAS GIVEN

(a)

(Shmuel): If a man gave to his wife a blank paper, and said 'here is your Get', she is divorced. We are concerned lest he wrote it with Mei Milin (later, it disappears).

(b)

Question (Beraisa): A man told his wife, 'here is your Get.' She took it and destroyed it. Her husband then said that it was an invalid monetary document. She is divorced; her husband is not believed to forbid her to remarry.

1.

Inference: She may remarry only because the paper had writing on it. If not, she would be forbidden!

(c)

Answer: Shmuel said that she is divorced only when we check the paper with a special dye that makes the writing reappear. If it does not reappear, she is not divorced.

(d)

Question: When she received it, the writing was not there!

(e)

Answer: Shmuel said that we are concerned. (She is doubtfully divorced. Perhaps the writing had not fully faded, and the Get was still legible when she received it.)

(f)

(Ravina): The Edei Mesirah must read the Get.

(g)

Question (Beraisa): A man told his wife, 'here is your Get.' She took it and destroyed it. Her husband then said that it was an invalid monetary document. She is divorced; her husband is not believed to forbid her to remarry.

1.

If the witnesses must read the Get, how could he claim it was a invalid monetary document?!

(h)

Answer: After the witnesses read it, he stuck it up his sleeve, and then gave it to her.

1.

One might have thought that we are concerned lest he switched it and gave her a different paper. The Beraisa teaches that this is not so.

(i)

A man threw a Get to his wife among barrels. Only a Mezuzah was found.

(j)

Rav Nachman: A Mezuzah is not generally found among barrels. Surely, he threw a Mezuzah there. She is certainly not divorced.

1.

However, if two or three Mezuzos were found, just like the others were there from before, perhaps all were there from before. We are concerned lest he threw her a Get, and mice took it.

(k)

A man entered a Beis ha'Keneses, took a Sefer Torah, gave it to his wife, and said that it is her Get.

(l)

Rav Yosef: Is there any reason to be concerned (lest this is a Get)?

1.

Suggestion: Perhaps he wrote a Get in Mei Milin in the margin, and now we cannot see it.

2.

Rejection: A Sefer Torah is treated with gall-nuts. Such writing would never have been legible on the parchment.

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