More Discussions for this daf
1. A "certain town" and fixed Kesubos 2. Carrying the Milah knife in Reshus ha'Rabim 3. Testifying for oneself
4. Rashi on going from a house on one side of mavoi to the other 5. Asra D'Rebbi Yehuda Ben Beseira 6. City that followed the view of Rebbi Eliezer
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SHABBOS 130

tuvya marcus asks:

It seems a strong statement in favor of R. eliezer that none died early in a city that did like he paskin-ed. and they were spared at the time of a gezeirah.

but - the gemara just ends there. there is no conclusion and the halacha is not like him.

is there any discussion of this somewhere else (i admit i only looked in teh Maharsha...)

tuvya marcus, Jerusalem, Israel

The Kollel replies:

1. We find an even more surprising example in Bava Metzia (59b), where there appeared to be a miraculous proof that the opinion of Rebbi Eliezer was the correct one, but even so the Halachah does not follow him.

The Gemara there relates the story of the "oven of Achnai," which was declared Tamei by the Chachamim. Rebbi Eliezer disagreed and ruled that it was Tahor. Rebbi Eliezer cited all possible Halachic proofs to his opinion but they were not accepted by his colleagues. He then attempted to prove that he was correct from miraculous phenomena. He said that the carob tree would prove him correct, and the carob tree was uprooted from its place 100 Amos. The Chachamim replied that one cannot cite proof for a Halachic argument from a carob tree. Then he said that if he was correct, the water canal should start flowing backwards, and this is what happened. His colleagues replied again that one cannot cite proof from the water canal. Then Rebbi Eliezer declared that the walls of the Beis ha'Midrash would prove that he was correct, and the walls started to cave in. This was followed by a Bas Kol emanating from Shamayim that declared that the Halachah follows the view of Rebbi Eliezer.

All of this was not decisive, because Rebbi Yehoshua arose and said, "Lo ba'Shamayim Hi" (Devarim 30:12), which means that since we received the Torah on Har Sinai, we do not pay attention to any Bas Kol from Shamayim because Hash-m has written in the Torah (Shemos 23:2) that in any Halachic dispute we follow the opinion of the majority of the Sages. Consequently, all the miraculous things that happened in favor of Rebbi Eliezer did not make any difference, because the majority of the Chacahmim disagreed with his ruling.

2. We now can understand why the city where nobody died early, or the avoidance of the Gezeirah, did not prove that the Halachah folllows the opinion of Rebbi Eliezer. Rebbi Eliezer was a very great Tzadik and this is why these miracles happened in his honor, but it cannot be proven from them that the Halachah follows his opinion. Since the majoriy of the Chachamim disagreed with him, the Halachah does not follow him, regardless of how many miracles happen in his favor, because Torah is not in Shamayim but has been given to us in this world so that the Sages in this world can decide the Halachah according to the majority oponion.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom