1) how do the commentaries (and who in particular discusses this if anyone) reconcile the seeming s'tirah between the fifth eikar and the Rambam's p'sak in Hilchos T'filah [7,5?] based on Brachos 60b in connection with the prayer to the malachim prior to entry into an out-house.?
2) does anyone differentiate between t'filos to angels and t'filos to the maysim? [Perhaps Chasam Sofer in his sheailos u"tshuvos Orach Chaim 166?] Yitzchak Kasdan
1) It appears that the prayer recited prior to enterring a bathroom is not similar to the prayer of "Malachei Rachamim," because when one enters the bathroom he is worried that the angels will stop guarding him. Therefore, he asks them to continue their mission of guarding him, as the Gemara in Berachos (60b) implies. It is not the same as telling the Melachim to bring one's prayers before Hash-m.
2) Regarding "Machnisei Rachamim," see Shibolei ha'Leket 282, and the prefact to Sidur Otzar ha'Tefilos.
3) What are "Maysim?" The Chasam Sofer which you mentioned explains why it is permitted to ask a friend or a Talmid Chacham to Daven on one's behalf, while asking an angel to do so is prohibited.
Permit to try again.
There seem to be various views that one *may* daven to the departed for them to daven for the chayim. See, e.g., Gesher Hachayim chelek # 3 perek 26 at page 211; Encyclopedia Talmudis chelek 7 at page 245-46 "Doresh el Hamysim"(text and footnote 38) ; Tosefes B'racha Vayishlach (35,20) "Vayatzev Yaacov Matzevah". I was asking whether there may be a distinction between praying to malachim and praying to the departed, i.e., even according to shitos that one can't pray to malachim, perhaps they still might not prohibit praying to maysim (to pray for us).
I alluded to the Chasam Sofer because he made a chiluk between praying to malachim and asking others to daven for us based on the s'varah that we ( i.e., Klall Yisroel) are all "shutfim" with one guf and one neshama. It occurred to me that since the chayim have responsibilities to the maysim (see, e.g. the Sifrei and the R. B'chaii on the pasuk at the end of Shoftim "Kaper L'Amecha" ; see also the aforementioned Tosefes B'racha and other similar sources), that perhaps such responsibility stems from the fact that we are all (i.e., including the departed) originally from one n'shama (which in turn is an explanation of "Areivus " -- see Tomar D'vorah 1,4. Note also the Baal Haturim on the pasuk "Kaper") .
If so, perhaps the Chasam Sofer who makes a chiluk with regard to malachim (and prohibits davening to them) may extend the rationale for that chiluk and *still* allow davening to maysim based on the s'vareh that he gives for having others daven on our behalf ( i.e., that we are all partners and one guf and n'shama).
Thanks again for having taken the time to reply.
Yitzchak Kasdan
Your suggestion for explaining a difference between praying to angels and praying to the departed based on the Chasam Sofer's words is very good. However, it seems that the Chasam Sofer was referring only to asking a living person to pray on one's behalf, *and the living person feels and shares the pain* of that person, the same way a person feels the pain of one of his own limbs, and then he prays for him.
Regarding asking the departed to pray on one's behalf, there is an opinion in the Gemara in Ta'anis (16a) that the reason people go out to the cemetery on fast days is to ask the departed to pray for them. That opinion seems to contradict the Gemara in Berachos (19a) that concludes that dead people do not know what is happening in this world, and if so, how can they pray for the living? It must be that that opinion in Ta'anis is arguing with the conclusion of the Gemara in Berachos and holds that the departed do know what is happening in this world. But this still needs further elucidation.