1)WHY THE ENACTMENT WAS MADE (cont.)

(a)Question (Mishnah): If one found a Tachrich or Agudah of documents, he returns them.

1.The borrower does not want the lender to receive the documents through a Siman!

(b)Retraction (Rava): Rather, Simanim are mid'Oraisa.

1.(Beraisa) Question: "It will be with you until Derosh Achicha." Would one have thought to return it before this?!

2.Rather, this teaches that you must be Doresh (investigate) if he is lying, by asking him for a Siman.

2)COMPETING SIMANIM

(a)(Rava): If you will say that Simanim are mid'Oraisa...

1.Interjection: Rava just proved that Simanim are mid'Oraisa!

2.Answer: One could reject the proof like above; he must bring witnesses testifying that it is his.

(b)(Continuation - Rava): If Simanim are mid'Oraisa, if Reuven and Shimon each give Simanim of an Aveidah, we leave it until Eliyahu comes;

1.If Reuven gives Simanim and witnesses say that it is Shimon's, Shimon gets it;

2.If Reuven and Shimon each give Simanim, and one witness supports Shimon, the witness does nothing. We leave it;

3.If two witnesses say that Reuven wove a garment, and two witnesses say that it fell from Shimon, we assume that Shimon bought it, so he gets it;

4.If Reuven knows the length and Shimon knows the width, Reuven gets it, for one can estimate its width when he sees another wear it, but not its length;

5.If Reuven knows the length and width, and Shimon knows the sum of its length and width, Reuven gets it;

6.If Reuven knows the length and width, and Shimon knows the weight, Shimon gets it;

7.If Reuven and his wife both give Simanim on a Get (for her), she gets it (he surely knows. She would only know if she received it.)

8.Question: What Simanim did she give?

i.The length and width is not a proper Siman. Perhaps she saw it in his hands!

9.Answer: Rather, there is a hole near a particular letter.

10.If Reuven and his wife both give Simanim on the string holding the Get, she gets it.

11.Question: What Simanim did she give?

i.The color is not a proper Siman. Perhaps she saw it in his hands!

12.Answer: Rather, she gave the length.

13.If Reuven and his wife both say that the Get was in a pouch, he gets it.

14.Question: What is the reason?

15.Answer: She knows that he puts all his things in his pouch.

3)ANNOUNCING AN AVEIDAH

(a)(Mishnah - R. Meir): One must announce until the neighbors hear;

(b)R. Yehudah says, he must announce for three festivals, and seven days after the third festival;

1.The seven days allow someone to return home in three days, check if he lost it, return in three days and claim the object on the seventh day.

(c)(Gemara - Beraisa): Neighbors of the Aveidah (must hear).

(d)Question: To which neighbors does this refer?

1.Suggestion: If refers to neighbors of the owner.

2.Rejection: If the finder knows the owner, he should give it to him!

(e)Answer: Rather, it is neighbors of the place where he found it.

(f)(Mishnah): R. Yehudah says... (three days to return home...)

(g)Contradiction (Mishnah): We start requesting rain (in prayer) on the third of Cheshvan;

1.R. Gamliel says, we begin on the seventh. We do not want rain while people are returning home (from Yerushalayim) after the end of Sukos, After 15 days, the last travelers have reached the Peras River (the end of Eretz Yisrael).

(h)Answer #1 (Rav Yosef): Fifteen days were allotted during the first Mikdash, for there were more people - "Yehudah and Yisrael were numerous like the sand at the sea (shore)";

1.Three days sufficed during the second Mikdash, for there were few people - "the whole Tzibur, 44,360."

(i)Objection (and Answer #2 - Abaye): Just the contrary! "V'Chol Yisrael b'Areihem" - they lived in the same cities in Bayis Sheni as in Bayis Rishon (so there is no reason to allow less time);

1.In the first Mikdash, there were more people, so they could travel day and night in caravans. Three days sufficed;

2.In the second Mikdash, caravans were harder to find, so 15 days were needed. (It was more than twice as long, for people would stop early, lest they not find a good place to lodge before dark. E.g. if Chasidim Rishonim spent three hours for each of Shacharis, Minchah and Ma'ariv, they could travel 15 hours a day in Bayis Rishon, and only three hours a day in Bayis Sheni if they stopped traveling at midday.)

(j)Answer #3 (Rava): In each Mikdash, the last people needed 15 days;

1.Chachamim did not burden finders to wait more than seven days.

(k)Inference (Ravina): This teaches that the finder would announce the object he found, e.g. 'a cloak';

1.If he would merely announce 'an Aveidah', another day would be needed for the (possible) losers to check if they lost anything.

(l)Rejection (Rava): Perhaps he merely announced 'an Aveidah.' Chachamim did not burden finders to wait another day.

(m)(Beraisa): On the first festival, he announces 'this is the first festival (of announcement).' On the second he says 'second festival'; on the third, he does not mention which festival it is (so people will know that it is the last festival).

(n)Question: He should explicitly say 'third festival' (people know the law)!

(o)Answer: People might mistakenly think that he said 'second'.

(p)Question: Also regarding the second, they may think he said 'first'!

28b----------------------------------------28b

(q)Answer: In any case, he will come the next festival and hear the announcement (and know that this is the last time).

4)THE ENACTMENT

(a)(Beraisa): At first, the finder would announce for three festivals, and seven days after the last festival;

1.One could go home and return in six days, and claim his object on the seventh day.

2.After the Churban, it was enacted to announce in Batei Kenesiyos and Batei Medrash;

3.After Anasim increased, it was enacted to inform (the finder's) neighbors and acquaintances, and this suffices.

(b)Question: What are the Anasim?

(c)Answer: They are people who say that Aveidos belong to the king.

(d)R. Ami found a Kli of gold coins. A man noticed that R. Ami was very nervous. He comforted him 'I am not a Persian. They say that Aveidos belong to the king.'

(e)(Beraisa): There was a 'rock of claimers' in Yerushalayim where finders would announce and losers would give Simanim.

5)TO WHOM WE RETURN

(a)(Mishnah): If the loser said what he lost but did not give a Siman, he does not get it;

1.We do not return to a swindler, even if he gives a Siman - "Ad Derosh Achicha (until your brother demands it)" - you must be Doresh (investigate) whether or not he is a swindler.

(b)(Gemara - Rav Yehudah): The finder announces only 'I found an Aveidah.'

(c)(Rav Nachman): He announces what was found, e.g. a cloak.

(d)(Rav Yehudah): If he announces what he found, we must be concerned for swindlers!

(e)(Rav Nachman): We are not concerned for swindlers. If we would be, even if we announced 'Aveidah' we should be concerned lest he will guess what it is!

(f)Question (against Rav Nachman - Mishnah): If the loser said what he lost but did not give a sign, he does not get it.

1.If he only announces 'an Aveidah', this is a Chidush. Even though the loser knew what was lost, he does not get it.

2.But if he announces what was lost, the loser said nothing more than he heard. Obviously, he does not get it!

(g)Answer (Rav Safra): He did not say good Simanim, but he said poor Simanim.

(h)(Beraisa): At first, the loser would give the Simanim and receive the object. After swindlers increased, it was enacted that he must bring witnesses that he is not a swindler.

1.Rav Papa's father lost a donkey. It was found. Rabah bar Rav Huna asked him to bring witnesses that he is not a swindler.

2.Rabah bar Rav Huna: Do you know that he is a swindler?

3.The witnesses: Yes.

4.Rav Papa's father: You say that I am a swindler?!

5.The witnesses: We meant that we know you are not a swindler!

6.Rabah bar Rav Huna: Presumably, the witnesses meant that from the beginning. One does not bring witnesses who will incriminate him.

6)HOW LONG DOES THE FINDER KEEP THE METZI'AH?

(a)(Mishnah): If one found something that works and eats (no more than the value of its labor, e.g. an ox), the finder should use it and feed it;

(b)If one found something that eats and does not work, it should be sold - "v'Hashevoso Lo", be careful to return it properly. (Do not keep the animal and deduct what it eats until the loser claims it.)

(c)R. Tarfon says, the finder may use the money from the sale (until the loser claims it). Therefore, if it is lost, he is liable;

(d)R. Akiva says, the finder may not use the money. Therefore, if it is lost, he is exempt.

(e)(Gemara) Question: (If something works and eats,) must the finder guard it forever?!

(f)Answer (Rav Nachman): He guards it for only 12 months.

(g)Support (Beraisa): If something works and eats, e.g. a cow or donkey, the finder keeps it for 12 months. After that, he sells it and guards the money;

1.If something eats and does not work, e.g. calves and young donkeys, the finder keeps it for three months. After that, he sells it and guards the money;

2.If one found geese or (male) chickens, he keeps them for 30 days. After that, he sells it and guards the money.

(h)(Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak): A hen (because it gives eggs) is like a work animal (he guards it for 12 months).

(i)Support (Beraisa): If one found a hen or a work animal, he keeps it for 12 months. After that, he sells it and guards the money;

1.If one found a calf or young donkey, he keeps it for 30 days. After that, he sells it and guards the money;

2.If one found a goose or rooster, or anything expensive to care for, he keeps it for three days. After that, he sells it and guards the money.

(j)Contradiction: The Beraisos argue about calves and young donkeys, and geese and roosters!

(k)Answer - part 1: For calves and young donkeys, in a time and place where they can eat grass in the pasture, he keeps them for three months. If he must feed them, he keeps them for 30 days;

(l)Version #1 (Rashi) Answer - part 2: One keeps big geese and roosters (they eat a lot) for three days. He keeps small ones for 30 days.

(m)Version #2 (Rambam) Answer - part 2: One keeps big geese and roosters (they can find their own food) for 30 days. He keeps small ones for three days. (end of Version #2)

(n)(Beraisa): "V'Hashevoso Lo" - be careful how you return it. Do not let calves, young donkeys, geese and roosters consume their value.

OTHER D.A.F. RESOURCES ON THIS DAF