Both hold like R. Yochanan. R. Yakov bar Idi understands that it is until the deficiency of the crescent is filled (i.e. half the circle is visible). Neharda'ei understand that it is until the entire circle is filled.
Question (Rav Acha mi'Difti): According to R. Yakov bar Idi, granted we cannot bless Mechadesh Chodoshim after seven days, but we should bless 'ha'Tov veha'Metiv' (Hash-m filled the deficiency, and makes it even greater)!
Answer (Ravina): Since we do not bless 'Dayan ha'Emes' when it vanishes, we do not bless ha'Tov veha'Metiv when it gets bigger.
Question: Why don't we make both blessings?
Answer: Since this happens constantly, we do not make these blessings.
(Rav Acha bar Chanina): One who blesses on the new moon in the proper time is like one who receives the Divine Presence. It says here "ha'Chodesh ha'Zeh", like it says "Zeh Keli v'Anvehu."
(Tana d'Vei R. Yishmael): If our only Mitzvah was (Kidush Levanah,) to receive Hash-m's countenance once a month, this would suffice for us.
(Abaye): (Since we receive the Divine Presence), we must stand when we say it.
They would carry Mereimar and Mar Zutra to make Kidush Levanah (they were unable to walk).
(Rav Acha): In Eretz Yisrael, they bless 'Baruch Mechadesh Chodoshim.'
(Rav Ashi): That is proper for women (who do not bless with Hash-m's name (Einei Shmuel; Maharsha - who cannot remember a long blessing). The proper blessing is as Rav Yehudah taught.
(Rav Yehudah): We bless (Baruch...) Asher b'Ma'amaro... Baruch Mechadesh Chodoshim.'
(Rav Acha bar Chanina): "V'Sachbulos Ta'aseh Lecha Milchamah" - one who succeeds in the war of Torah is one who knows Chavilos (bundles) of Mishnayos and Beraisos.
(Rav Yosef): "V'Rav Tevu'os b'Cho'ach Shor" applies to me. (Yosef was called "Bechor Shor", and Rav Yosef had a vast knowledge of teachings.)
DISAGREEMENT ABOUT THE HOUR
(Mishnah): If one witness says 'it was the second hour.' ..
(Rav Simi bar Ashi): This is only if they argue about which hour, but if one says that it was before sunrise and the other says that it was after, their testimony is disqualified.
Objection: This is obvious!
Correction: Rather, if one says that it was before sunrise and the other says that it was during the sunrise, their testimony is disqualified.
Objection: Also this is obvious!
Answer: One might have thought that he saw rays of light and mistakenly thought it was sunrise. Rav Simi bar Ashi teaches that we do not say this.
REACHING A VERDICT
(Mishnah): Afterwards, we bring in... (if a Talmid gives a reason for Zechus, we put him with the judges, and he stays there the entire day).
Question: He stays for more than just that day!
(Beraisa): If a Talmid gives a valid reason for Zechus, we put him with the judges, and he stays there forever. If his reason is not good, he stays there the entire day, lest his elevation cause his decline.
Answer: The Mishnah discusses when his reason is not good. He stays there the entire day.
(Mishnah): If we find a reason for Zechus...(they do not drink wine the entire day).
Question: What is the reason?
Answer (Rav Acha bar Chanina): "Ul'Rozenim Ei Shechar" - those engaging in the secrets of the world should not become intoxicated.
(Mishnah): (If 36 are Mechayev and 35 are Mezakeh, they debate the matter until one of the Mechayvim finds Zechus for the defendant.)
Question: What happens if no one finds Zechus?
Answer (Rav Acha and R. Yochanan): We exempt him.
Version #1 - Question (Rav Papa): We should exempt him immediately (once the vote is 36 to 35. Why do we try to be Mechayev him?)
Answer (Abaye): It is a disgrace when Beis Din is inconclusive.
Version #2 - Question (Rav Papa): We should exempt him immediately (if 12 are Mechayev and 11 are Mezakeh. Why must we add judges?)
Answer (Abaye): Indeed, that is R. Yosi's opinion!
(Beraisa - R. Yosi): Just like we do not add to a Beis Din of 71, we do not add to a Beis Din of 23.
(Beraisa): In monetary cases, we say 'Nizdaken ha'Din.' We do not say this in capital cases.
Question: What does it mean 'Nizdaken ha'Din'?
Suggestion: It means that the case is difficult, and we must not rush the verdict.
Rejection: All the more so, we should say this in capital cases!
Answer #1 (Rav Huna bar Mano'ach): Indeed, it means this. We must switch the Beraisa (we say this only in capital cases).
Answer #2 (Rav Ashi): We do not switch the Beraisa. It means, we are sure that our verdict is correct, and we need not ponder it any more.
Question (Beraisa): The greatest judge says 'Nizdaken ha'Din.'
Version #1: We understand according to Rav Ashi, it is proper for the greatest judge to say this.
However, according to Rav Huna, why must the greatest judge say that we need more time? He embarrasses himself by saying this!
Answer: Yes, but it is better to embarrass himself than for someone else to embarrass him.
Version #2: We understand according to Rav Huna. It is better to embarrass himself than for someone else to embarrass him.
However, according to Rav Ashi, why must the greatest judge aggrandize himself by saying that we are sure our verdict is correct? "Yehalelcha Zar v'Lo Ficha"!
Answer: It is the responsibility of the greatest judge to say matters of Beis Din.
(Mishnah): When they finish deciding, they bring them in. The greatest judge says 'Ploni, you are Chayav. Almoni, you are Zakai.'
STONING BY BEIS DIN
(Mishnah): After the final verdict (if he was sentenced to be stoned), he is taken to be stoned.
The Beis ha'Skilah was outside of Beis Din - "Hotzei Es ha'Mekalel."
Ploni stands at the door of Beis Din, holding a flag; Almoni is far away (but close enough to see if he will wave the flag) with a horse. If someone has a reason for Zechus, Ploni waves the flag; Almoni races to call back the defendant to be judged again.
Even if the defendant himself gives a reason for Zechus, we return him to Beis Din, even four or five times, on condition that it is a proper reason.
(Gemara) Question: It is not sufficient that Beis ha'Skilah is outside of Beis Din!
(Beraisa): The Beis ha'Skilah was outside of all three Machanos (i.e. in the Midbar. In Eretz Yisrael, it was outside of the city.)
Answer: The Mishnah teaches that if Beis Din is not in a city, we must set up Beis ha'Skilah outside of Beis Din, lest Beis Din look like murderers, or in order to cause a delay before the execution (in case someone finds a reason for Zechus).
Question: What is the source of this law?
Answer (Beraisa): "Hotzei Es ha'Mekalel El mi'Chutz la'Machaneh" - outside of three Machanos.
Question: What is the source that it is outside of three Machanos? Perhaps it is outside of only one Machaneh!
Answer: It says here mi'Chutz la'Machaneh, and also regarding Parim ha'Nisrafim. Just like there it is outside of three Machanos, also here.
Question: What is the source there (regarding Parim ha'Nisrafim)?
Answer #1 (Beraisa): "V'Hotzi Es Kol ha'Par El mi'Chutz la'Machaneh" - outside of all three Machanos.
Suggestion: Perhaps it is outside of only one Machaneh!
Rejection: We learn from Par He'elem Davar (a Korban brought for a mistake of the Great Sanhedrin), about which it also says "El mi'Chutz la'Machaneh";
Question: We already know that Par He'elem Davar is outside the Machaneh from "Ka'asher Soraf Es ha'Par ha'Rishon"!
Answer: "El mi'Chutz la'Machaneh" teaches that it must be taken outside of two Machanos.
Question: Ashes (from the outer Mizbe'ach) are taken "El mi'Chutz la'Machaneh." We already know that it is outside two Machanos, for the Par He'elem Davar is burned "Al Shefech ha'Deshen"!
Answer: "El mi'Chutz la'Machaneh" teaches that it must be outside of all three Machanos.
Question: Why don't we learn from Shechutei Chutz (slaughtering a Korban outside the Mikdash, i.e. one Machaneh)!
Answer: Stoning more resembles Par He'elem Davar. Regarding both it says 'Hotzi', both should be done outside the Machanos, both are an atonement.
Question: Stoning resembles Shechutei Chutz in four ways. Both involve people, a transgression, taking a life, and Pigul does not apply to either of them!
Answer: The overriding criteria is that stoning and Par He'elem Davar both should be done outside.
Answer #2 (to Question (h) - Rav Papa): Moshe was in Machaneh Levi, and Hash-m told him "Hotzei Es ha'Mekalel", i.e. outside of Machaneh Levi;
"Va'Yotzi'u Es ha'Mekalel El mi'Chutz la'Machaneh" teaches outside of Machaneh Yisrael.
Question: We need the latter verse to teach that Yisrael did as they were commanded!
Answer: It already says "u'Vnei Yisrael Asu Ka'asher Tzivah Hash-m Es Moshe."
Question: If so, what do we learn from "va'Yirgemu Oso Even"
Answer (Beraisa): "Va'Yirgemu Oso Even" - he is stoned alone, without his shirt. "Even" - if he died from one rock, the Mitzvah was fulfilled.