KIDUSHIN 80 - Dedicated by Mordechai and Shifra Gitt (RBS, Israel) in memory of their deceased family members.

1)

FOR WHAT DO WE RELY ON CHAZAKAH?

(a)

(Reish Lakish): We only rely on children clinging to a mother for Terumah, but not for lineage.

(b)

(R. Yochanan): We also rely on it for lineage.

(c)

This is like R. Yochanan said elsewhere.

1.

(R. Chiya bar Aba, citing R. Yochanan): We lash, stone and burn people based on Chazakah, but we don't burn Terumah based on Chazakah.

(d)

We lash people based on Chazakah, like Rav Yehudah taught:

1.

(Rav Yehudah): If a woman was established among her neighbors to be a Nidah, her husband is lashed for Bi'ah with her.

(e)

We stone and burn people based on Chazakah, like Rabah bar Rav Huna taught:

1.

(Rabah bar Rav Huna): If a man and woman and a boy and girl grew up in the same house (we assume the children are from these parents), they can be stoned and burned for Bi'ah of a parent with a child.

(f)

(R. Shimon ben Pazi): Once, a woman came to Yerushalayim with a boy on her shoulder. She raised him, and had Bi'ah with him. They were stoned.

1.

It was not known Vadai that he was her son, but he clung to her (like children cling to their mother).

2)

CHAZAKAH OF TAHARAH

(a)

(Reish Lakish): We burn Terumah based on Chazakah.

(b)

(R. Yochanan): We don't burn Terumah based on Chazakah

(c)

(Mishnah - R. Meir): If a child was found near a dough holding a small piece of dough in his hand, the big dough is Tahor;

(d)

Chachamim say, it is Tamei, because a child normally plays (Rashi - in trash heaps, and becomes Tamei; Tosfos - with dough, and he probably touched the dough).

(e)

Question: Why is R. Meir Metaher?

(f)

Answer: He holds that most children play, and a minority do not. The dough has Chezkas Taharah. We join the minority to the Chazakah; this weakens the majority.

1.

Chachamim ignore the minority. The majority overrides the Chazakah.

(g)

(Reish Lakish): This is the case in which we burn Terumah based on Chazakah.

(h)

(R. Yochanan): This is not the case in which we burn Terumah based on Chazakah.

(i)

Question: According to R. Yochanan, what is the case?

(j)

Answer (Mishnah): If there is a dough in the house, and also Sheratzim (Tamei rodents) and (Tahor) frogs, and pieces of Sheratzim or frogs (we cannot tell which) were found in the dough:

1.

If there are more Sheratzim than frogs in the house, the dough is Tamei. If there are more frogs, it is Tahor.

(k)

Support (for R. Yochanan - Beraisa): (In cases of Safek Tum'ah in which we cannot ask the involved parties what happened because they lack understanding, we rule that it is Tahor.) In two cases in which the parties lack understanding, Chachamim were stringent to consider them as if they have understanding (so we are stringent in a Reshus ha'Yachid) - a child and another case.

1.

The case of the child is when he is near a dough (like above).

(l)

Question: What is the other case?

(m)

Answer: If in a house there are a dough, chickens and Tamei liquids, and there are holes in the dough from pecking, we suspend the dough. We neither eat it nor burn it.

80b----------------------------------------80b

(n)

(R. Yehoshua ben Levi): This refers only to white liquids. If the liquids were red, (the dough is Tahor, for) if there were drops in the dough, this would be noticed.

(o)

Objection: Perhaps they were absorbed in the dough!

(p)

Correction (R. Yochanan): Rather, if the liquids are clear (a reflection can be seen in them, then the dough is Tahor, for) drops in the dough would be noticed. If the liquids are cloudy, we suspend the dough.

3)

SECLUSION OF MEN WITH WOMEN

(a)

(Mishnah): A man may not be secluded with two women, but a woman may be secluded with two men;

(b)

R. Shimon says, even one man may be secluded with two women. If his wife is with him; they may even sleep together in an inn, since his wife will guard him.

(c)

A male may be secluded with his mother or daughter, and sleep with her without clothes;

1.

When they grow up, they must wear clothes.

(d)

(Gemara) Question: Why is it forbidden for a man to be secluded with two women?

(e)

Answer (Tana d'Vei Eliyahu): It is because women are easily enticed.

(f)

Question: What is the source that seclusion is forbidden?

(g)

Answer (R. Yochanan) Question: "If your brother, the son of your mother will entice you (to serve idolatry)" - do only maternal brothers entice?!

1.

Answer: Rather, this hints that a man may be secluded with his mother, but not with other Arayos (forbidden women).

(h)

Question: What is the simple understanding of the verse?

(i)

Answer (Abaye): It teaches a Chidush. Not only should one not heed enticement of a paternal brother, who hates him (for he decreases his inheritance), rather, one should not heed even enticement of a maternal brother, who loves him.

(j)

Suggestion: Our Mishnah is unlike Aba Sha'ul:

1.

(Beraisa): If a baby dies within 30 days, it may be carried out for burial without a coffin, with one woman and two men, but not with two women and one man;

2.

Aba Sha'ul says, it is permitted even with two women and one man.

(k)

Rejection: Our Mishnah is even like Aba Sha'ul. At a time of mourning, the Yetzer Ra is subdued.

(l)

Chachamim hold like R. Yitzchak.

1.

(R. Yitzchak): "Al Mah Yis'onen Adam Chai Gever Al Chata'av" - even at a time of Aninus (mourning), one must be Misgaver on (overpower) his Yetzer Ra, or else it will be Misgaver on him.

(m)

Aba Sha'ul must explain differently. The verse discusses one who complains about Hash-m's ways. "Can a living man (justifiably) complain? Did he overcome his (temptations to) sin?!" It suffices that he is alive!

(n)

Chachamim learn from a particular case (in which people pretended to be engaged in burying a child, and were Mezanah) that we cannot permit seclusion even at a time of mourning.

4)

SECLUSION WITH MORAL MEN

(a)

(Mishnah): A woman may be secluded with two men.

(b)

(Rav Yehudah citing Rav): This is only with moral men. She may not be secluded even with 10 immoral men.

1.

There was a case in which 10 immoral men took a woman out in a coffin to sin with her.

(c)

Support #1 (Rav Yosef): Ten men will gather to steal a heavy beam. They are not ashamed of each other.

(d)

Support #2 (Mishnah): We send two Chachamim with a man taking a Sotah (his wife) to Yerushalayim to make her drink, lest he have Bi'ah with her on the way.

1.

We must send Chachamim, not commoners!

(e)

Rejection: We need Chachamim so they can warn him (that if he has Bi'ah with her, the water will not test her. If not for this, perhaps even immoral men could be sent.)

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