KIDUSHIN 80 - Dedicated by Mordechai and Shifra Gitt (RBS, Israel) in memory of their deceased family members.

1)

(a)What distinction does Reish Lakish draws regarding the Din of relying on the children of the man who comes from overseas clinging to their mother. When do we ...

1. ... rely on it?

2. ... not rely on it?

(b)What does Rebbi Yochanan say?

(c)In this ruling, he follows his own reasoning elsewhere. What does Rebbi Chiya bar Aba quote him as saying regarding administering Malkus and even Sekilah on the basis of a Chazakah? What has that got to do with Yuchsin?

(d)In which area does Rebbi Yochanan nevertheless limit the power of Chazakah?

1)

(a)Reish Lakish draws a distinction with regard to the Din of relying on the children of the man who comes from overseas clinging to their mother between ...

1. ... eating Kodshei ha'Gevul (Terumah and Chalah) in which case we rely on the Chazakah, and ...

2. ... Yuchsin, in which case we do not.

(b)Rebbi Yochanan relies on the Chazakah even regarding Yuchsin.

(c)In this ruling, he follows his own reasoning elsewhere, where Rebbi Chiya bar Aba quotes him as saying that we even administer Malkus and even Sekilah on the basis of a Chazakah, how much more so regarding Yuchsin.

(d)Rebbi Yochanan nevertheless limits the power of Chazakah with regard to burning Terumah (as we shall soon see).

2)

(a)'Malkin Al ha'Chazakos' refers to a statement of Rav Yehudah, and 'Soklin v'Sorfin Al ha'Chazakos', to a statement of Rabah bar Rav Huna. In which case does Rav Yehudah say 'Ba'alah Lokeh alehah Mishum Nidah'?

(b)What does Rabah bar Rav Huna mean when he says 'Ish v'Ishah, Tinok v'Tinokes she'Higdilu b'Soch ha'Bayis, Niskalin Zeh Al Zeh, v'Nisrafin Zeh Al Zeh'?

(c)Which incident did Rebbi Shimon ben Pazi Amar Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi quoting bar Kapara relate about a woman who came to Yerushalayim with her son riding on her shoulders? What is his punch-line?

2)

(a)'Malkin Al ha'Chazakos' refers to a statement of Rav Yehudah, and 'Soklin v'Sorfin Al ha'Chazakos', to a statement of Rabah bar Rav Huna. Rav Yehudah says 'Ba'alah Lokeh Alehah Mishum Nidah' when the husband hears that his wife is a Nidah via the neighbors, who inform him that she began wearing the clothes that she normally wears when she is a Nidah.

(b)And when Rabah bar Rav Huna says 'Ish v'Ishah, Tinok v'Tinokes she'Higdilu b'Soch ha'Bayis, Niskalin Zeh Al Zeh, v'Nisrafin Zeh Al Zeh' he is referring to a family consisting of a man and a woman, a boy and a girl who grew up on the assumption that they are husband and wife, a son and a daughter. Should the son then have relations with the woman, he is Chayav Sekilah, and the daughter, Sereifah, for having relations with the man.

(c)Rebbi Shimon ben Pazi Amar Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi quoting bar Kapara related the incident of a woman who came to Yerushalayim with her son riding on her shoulders and who proceeded to bring him up as her own son. When he grew up, he had relations with her, and Beis-Din sentenced them to Sekilah, even though the only evidence that she was his mother consisted of the fact that when they first arrived, he clung to her like a child clings to his mother.

3)

(a)We learned earlier that according to Rebbi Yochanan, one does not burn Terumah on the basis of a Chazakah. What does Reish Lakish say?

(b)The Mishnah in Taharos cites Rebbi Meir, who rules that, if a child is playing beside a large dough, a piece of which he is found to be holding in his hand, the large piece of dough is Tahor. On what basis do the Rabanan declare it Tamei (despite the Chezkas Taharah of the dough)?

(c)Why does Rebbi Meir disagree?

(d)In which point then, do the Rabanan argue? What is their bone of contention?

3)

(a)We learned earlier that according to Rebbi Yochanan, one does not burn Terumah on the basis of a Chazakah. According to Reish Lakish one does.

(b)The Mishnah in Taharos cites Rebbi Meir, who rules that, if a child is playing beside a large dough, a piece of which he is found to be holding in his hand, the large piece of dough is Tahor. The Rabanan declare it Tamei (despite the Chezkas Taharah of the dough) on the basis of 'Rov' (because most children tend to play among the trash, were there are bound to be dead 'Sheratzim'), and 'Rov' overrides 'Chazakah'.

(c)Rebbi Meir disagrees because he adds the 'Mi'ut' (minority) of children who don't play among the trash to the Chazakah, to override the 'Rov'.

(d)The Rabanan disagree with Rebbi Meir inasmuch as they do not consider the minority at all.

4)

(a)How do Reish Lakish Mishum Rebbi Oshaya and Rebbi Yochanan respectively, interpret the Rabanan's ruling 'Metam'in'?

(b)What is the Halachic difference between a dead frog and a dead toad?

(c)What does the Beraisa say about a large dough that is lying in a house which is infested with frogs and toads, and which contains small pieces of one or the other (but we do not know which)?

(d)What ruling does Rebbi Yochanan issue there in a case where the house contains a majority of toads?

(e)What is the problem with that ruling?

4)

(a)Reish Lakish Mishum Rebbi Oshaya interprets the Rabanan's 'Metam'in' to mean 'Sorfin', whereas according to Rebbi Yochanan it means Tolin (it cannot be eaten, yet it may not be burned [because of the prohibition of destroying Terumah).

(b)The Halachic difference between a dead frog and a dead toad is that whereas the former is Tahor, the latter (which is one of the eight Sheratzim), is Tamei.

(c)The Beraisa rules in the case of a large dough that is lying in a house which is infested with frogs and toads, and the dough contains small pieces of one or the other (but we do not know which) that if there are a majority of frogs, the dough is Tahor; of toads, it is Tamei.

(d)Rebbi Yochanan issues a ruling in the latter case there that not only is the dough Tamei, but any Terumah that has contact with that dough must be burned ...

(e)... clashing with his earlier ruling that we do not burn Terumah on the basis of a Chazakah alone.

5)

(a)How do we resolve the discrepancy between Rebbi Yochanan's two rulings regarding burning Terumah on the basis of a Chazakah?

(b)How do we know that in his Machlokes with Reish Lakish, Rebbi Yochanan is right?

5)

(a)We resolve the discrepancy between Rebbi Yochanan's two rulings regarding burning Terumah on the basis of a Chazakah by differentiating between the latter, which is a 'Ruba d'Iysa Kaman' (a Rov that is based on actual numbers), which is a Rov, and the former, a 'Ruba d'Leisa Kaman' (which is based on most people do (i.e. that most children tend to play among the trash), which is not a Rov, but a Chazakah.

(b)We know that in his Machlokes with Reish Lakish, Rebbi Yochanan is right because he has the support of a Beraisa.

6)

(a)In the Beraisa that supports Rebbi Yochanan, what does the Tana remark about the above-mentioned case of the child playing beside a dough? Why ought the dough to have otherwise been Tahor, even if there were a majority of toads (and even in the Reshus ha'Yachid)?

(b)In a second ruling. the Tana of the Beraisa discusses the Din regarding a dough inside a house. What is the significance of the chickens and the Tamei liquid? What leads us to believe that the dough is probably Tamei?

6)

(a)In the Beraisa that supports Rebbi Yochanan, the Tana remarks that, the above-mentioned case of the child playing beside a dough Chazal considered the child as if he were a grown-up, who is able to answer a question if asked ('she'Yesh Bo Da'as Lisha'El'). Otherwise, the dough ought to have been Tahor even if there were a majority of toads (and even in the Reshus ha'Yachid) because the principle of 'Safek Tum'ah bi'Reshus ha'Yachid Tamei', is confined to 'Devarim she'Yesh bahem Da'as Lisha'el'.

(b)In a second ruling. the Tana of the Beraisa discusses the Din regarding a dough inside a house. And it is the chickens and the Tamei liquid, coupled with the fact that we discovered peck-marks on the dough, that leads us to believe that the dough is probably Tamei (because it looks as though the chicken first lapped up some of the Tamei liquid, before pecking at the dough whilst drops of the liquid were still dripping from its beak.

7)

(a)How does Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi qualify the current ruling of the Beraisa, depending on the color of the liquid?

(b)On what grounds do we query this leniency?

(c)Rebbi Yochanan (who concedes that Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi was the Gadol ha'Dor), maintains that he did not grasp the reasoning behind the distinction. How does he therefore limit the qualification?

7)

(a)Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi qualifies the current ruling of the Beraisa restricting it to where the liquid is a pale color, because, if it was red, then the peck-marks ought to be red too (a clear proof that the chicken did not drink the liquid first).

(b)We query this leniency however on the grounds that red liquid too, might become absorbed in the dough (without being noticeable).

(c)Rebbi Yochanan (who concedes that Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi was the Gadol ha'Dor, nevertheless), maintains that he did not grasp the reasoning behind the distinction. He therefore limits the qualification to red liquid that one cannot see through (such as blood or thick red wine), but if it is sufficiently translucent to see the shape of the child's face through is, the dough is Tamei.

80b----------------------------------------80b

8)

(a)The Tana Kama of our Mishnah prohibits Yichud (the seclusion of a man and a woman in an enclosed area) even one man with two women. What is the Din regarding one woman with two men? How does Tana d'Bei Eliyahu explain the difference?

(b)What does Rebbi Shimon say (see Hagahos ha'Gra)?

(c)Our Mishnah also permits a young boy to sleep with his mother, and a man with his young daughter. What does the Tana say in the event that they are 'grown up' (which will be explained later)?

8)

(a)The Tana Kama of our Mishnah prohibits Yichud (the seclusion of a man and a woman in an enclosed area) even of one man with two women though he permits one woman to be secluded with two men. Tana d'Bei Eliyahu explains this distinction based on the principle 'Nashim Da'atan Kalos' (women are more easily seduced than men, and are less embarrassed to commit adultery in front of one another than men).

(b)Rebbi Shimon says that as long as one's wife is present, a man may seclude himself with two other women and even with one.

(c)Our Mishnah also permits a young boy to sleep with his mother, and a man with his young daughter. In the event that they are 'grown up' (which will be explained later) the Tana requires the children to be covered.

9)

(a)How does Rebbi Yochanan in the name of Rebbi Yishmael extrapolate Yichud from the Pasuk in Shoftim (in connection with a Meisis) "Ki Yesischa Achicha ben Imecha"?

(b)How does Abaye explain the Torah's choice of Lashon in the context of Meisis (in a non-Halachic sense)?

9)

(a)Rebbi Yochanan in the name of Rebbi Yishmael extrapolates Yichud from the Pasuk (in connection with a Meisis) "Ki Yesischa Achicha ben Imecha" from the fact that, if it does not come to teach us that a son is permitted to seclude himself with his mother, then why does the Torah write "Achicha ben Imecha", implying that a paternal brother would be less likely to entice him to serve idols than a maternal one?

(b)Abaye explains the Torah's choice of Lashon (in a non-Halachic sense) in the context of Meisis to teach us that all the stringent laws of Meisis apply (not only to a paternal brother, whose hatred is common, due to the fact that he is a co-heir in his father's property, but) even to a maternal brother, who is more likely to be well inclined towards his brother.

10)

(a)How does one bury a baby that died within thirty days? How many people are required for the ceremony?

(b)In this context, the Tana Kama of the Beraisa permits one woman and two men, but forbids one man and two women (as we just learned in our Mishnah). What does Aba Shaul say?

(c)How do we reconcile Aba Shaul with our Mishnah?

(d)The Rabanan disagree, because they concur with Rebbi Yitzchak. How does Rebbi Yitzchak interpret the Pasuk in Eichah "Mah Yis'onen Adam Chai, Gever Al Chata'av"?

10)

(a)To bury a baby that died within thirty days one carries him in one's bosom. Only three people are required for the ceremony.

(b)The Tana Kama of the Beraisa permits one woman and two men, but forbids one man and two women (as we just learned in our Mishnah). Aba Shaul permits even one man and two women.

(c)Aba Shaul could well be the author of our Mishnah because he is only lenient regarding people who are mourning, in which case it is easy to control one's Yetzer ha'Ra.

(d)The Rabanan disagree, because they concur with Rebbi Yitzchak, who interprets the Pasuk "Mah Yis'onen Adam Chai, Gever Al Chata'av" to mean that one needs to beware of one's Yetzer ha'Ra as long as one lives, even when in mourning.

11)

(a)How does Aba Shaul explain the Pasuk "Mah Yis'onen ... "?

(b)The Rabanan counter this with an incident which actually took place. Which incident?

(c)Alternatively, it is not the Rabanan who respond with an incident, but Aba Shaul, who proves his point with an incident that is cited in Mo'ed Katan, about a woman whose first child died. What happened there?

11)

(a)According to Aba Shaul, the Pasuk "Mah Yis'onen ... " means that a person should not hold it against Hash-m when he suffers losses, but should rather bear in mind the boundless kindness of life that Hash-m grants him continuously. He should rather attribute his problems to his own sins.

(b)The Rabanan counter this with an incident which actually took place where a woman took out a child on the pretext that he had died and she was going to bury it, whereas her real intention was to commit adultery with the man who accompanied her.

(c)Alternatively, it is not the Rabanan who respond with an incident, but Aba Shaul, who proves his point with an incident that is cited in Mo'ed Katan, about a woman whose oldest child died and who allowed herself to become so distraught (with the injustice that Hash-m had dealt her) that she could not stop weeping until eventually, due to her excessive sobbing, all her seven children died.

12)

(a)What does Rav Yehudah Amar Rav, backed by an incident that actually occurred, say about the concession of more than one man secluding themselves with one woman? What was the incident?

(b)What does Rav Yosef prove from the fact that sometimes, heavy beams are stolen?

(c)We learned in the Mishnah in Sotah that the Beis-Din would send two Talmidei-Chachamim with a man taking his Sotah wife to Yerushalayim. Why did they do that?

(d)Why can we not extrapolate from there that ordinary people are not eligible, in keeping with Rav Yehudah Amar Rav's statement? Why is this Mishnah not a proof for Rav Yehudah Amar Rav?

12)

(a)Rav Yehudah Amar Rav, backed by an incident that actually occurred, restricts the concession of more than one man secluding themselves with one woman to decent people, but as far as people with immoral tendencies is concerned, even ten men are forbidden to seclude themselves with one woman, as we see in the case where ten men carried a married woman on a stretcher (ostensibly to be buried), but the moment they left town, they were intimate with her.

(b)Rav Yosef proves from the fact that sometimes, heavy beams are stolen (which can only have been carried by a few men) that even men are sometimes not embarrassed to sin in each other's presence.

(c)We learned in the Mishnah in Sotah that the Beis-Din would send two Talmidei-Chachamim with a man taking his Sotah wife to Yerushalayim to ensure that the couple would not be intimate on the way (in which case the Mei Sotah would not subsequently take effect on the woman).

(d)We cannot extrapolate from there that ordinary people are not eligible (in keeping with Rav Yehudah Amar Rav's statement) because the reason that Beis-Din sent specifically Talmidei-Chachamim, was in order to issue them with the appropriate warning should they intend to be intimate (and not necessarily because other people would be suspect of committing adultery).

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