INDIRECTLY AND DIRECTLY CAUSING TUMAH (Yerushalmi Terumos Perek 8 Halachah 4 Daf 45b)

ר' אילא ור"ז תרויהון בשם ר' יוחנן חבית הראשונה כר' יוסי והשנייה בין כר"מ בין כרבי יוסי


(R. Ila and R. Zeira citing R. Yochanan): (Disagreeing with Chevraya earlier in Chulin 101(k)) the first barrel (where R. Yehoshua permitted indirectly causing Tumah) is like R. Yosi but the second barrel (where R. Yehoshua permitted even actively making Tamei) is according to both R. Meir and R. Yosi (since R. Yosi agrees that when there is the potential for great monetary loss, one may actively make Terumah Tamei).

אמר ר"ז קומי רבי מנא ולית הדא פליגא על (ר"מ)[ר' יוסי]


(R. Zeira to R. Mana): Doesn't this disagree with R. Yosi (who, in Maseches Pesachim, didn't allow actively making Tamei)?

א"ל נאמר דלא כר"מ ונאמר דלא כרבי יוסי לפי שמצינו ר"מ שורף תלויה בכל מקום


(R. Mana to R. Zeira): If you say that the Mishnah isn't like R. Yosi, you must also say that the Mishnah isn't like R. Meir, as R. Meir always permits burning Teluyah (so would also permit actively making it Tamei, but the Mishnah prohibited that).

אמר רבי מנא אזלית לקיסרין שמעית חזקיה בשם רבי ירמיה ר' מאיר שורף תלויה בכל מקום ואמרית ליה בגין שהיא תלויה דבר תורה


(R. Mana): I once went to Kisarin and heard Chizkiyah say in the name of R. Yirmiyah that R. Meir always permits burning Teluyah. And I said to Chizkiyah, "Doesn't that apply only to Teluyah that has a Torah doubt of Tumah, (rather than if the doubt was merely Rabbinic)"?

א"ל אין אנא פתר לה שנטמאה במדור של גוים מה אית לך דתני


(Chizkiyah): Yes. I explain R. Meir's case as applying even when the Terumah became doubtfully Tamei in a dwelling-place of gentiles which is only Rabbinically Tamei (because of a concern that they buried their dead there), as taught in a Tosefta...

מדור של גוים תולין רבי יוסי בי ר' יהודה אומר שורפין


(Tosefta): If Terumah was brought into a dwelling-place of gentiles - it is Teluyah. R. Yosi bei R. Yehuda says that it is burned.

רבי חונא בשם ר' ירמיה ר"מ שורף תלויה בשאר ימות השנה


(Rav Chuna citing R. Yirmiyah): R. Meir said that one burns Teluyah throughout the year (not just on Erev Pesach).

[והא] (ד)תני תרומה תלויה וטמאה שורפין אותה ערב שבת עם חשיכה דברי ר"מ וחכמים אומרים בזמנה


Question (Baraisa earlier): R. Meir says that Terumah Teluyah and Temeyah are burned on Erev Shabbos just before Shabbos (when Erev Pesach occurs on Shabbos). The Chachamim disagree, requiring the Chametz to be crumbled or thrown into the wind at the correct time (i.e. Shabbos morning).

וישרוף בשחרית


Question: Why not burn it on Erev Shabbos in the morning?

תיפתר בשנתעצל ולא שרף


Answer: The person was lazy and didn't do so.

תדע לך שהוא כן (דלא) [ד]תני(נן שחרית)[טמאה] ולא בשנתעצל ולא שרף


This is certainly true, since the Baraisa also discussed Tamei Terumah, which may certainly be burned in the morning! Rather, it must be referring to when he was lazy and had not burned then.

אמר רבי אבא מרי אחוי דרבי יוסי תיפתר שנולד לה טומאה באותה שעה ולית ש"מ כלום


Rebuttal (R. Abba Mari, brother of R. Yosi): Perhaps it's discussing when the Tumah only came at the end of Erev Shabbos. That's why he didn't burn it earlier and it's therefore no proof at all.

אמר רבי יוחנן ר' יהושע ור"ש שניהן אמרו דבר אחד


(R. Yochanan): R. Yehoshua and R. Shimon both said the same thing. (In the Mishnah in Maseches Bechoros (5:2) (see later in Chulin 103-1(a)) - if a Bechor suffered from a congestion of blood, even if it died, R. Yehuda says that one may not let blood from it. The Chachamim permit it, even if it will create in it a blemish, but if it did, that does not permit its slaughtering. R. Shimon permits letting its blood, even if he inadvertently made a blemish, and if he did, he may slaughter it.)

[דף מו עמוד א] א"ר אילא ר"ש דבכורות ור' יהושע דתרומות לא הדין מודה לדין ולא הדין מודה לדין


(R. Ila): (Disagreeing) R. Shimon in Bechoros and R. Yehoshua in Terumos don't (necessarily) agree with each other. (R. Yehoshua only permits actively making the Terumah Tamei in order to save the Chulin, but perhaps he would not allow making a blemish in the Bechor as it is causing a loss to the Bechor itself. And R. Shimon only permits blemishing the Bechor because it already has a congestion of blood which categorizes it as blemished; but he would not permit actively making Terumah Tamei.)

א"ר זעירא מסתברא ר"ש מודה לר' יהושע ור' יהושע לא מודה לר"ש


(R. Zeira): It's logical to say that R. Shimon agrees with R. Yehoshua, but R. Yehoshua does not agree with R. Shimon. (If R. Shimon permits letting blood from the Bechor in order to prevent monetary loss, even though it will make a blemish; certainly he would permit actively making Terumah Tamei to prevent the loss of the Chulin. But R. Yehoshua might only specifically permit the case of Terumah, but not the Bechor.)

ר' בון בר חייא בעי קומי ר"ז על דעתך דתימר ר"ש יודי לר' יהושע והתנינן מודין ר' ליעזר ור' יהושע ששורפין זו לעצמה וזו לעצמה וישרוף שתיהן כאחת


Question (R. Bun bar Chiya to R. Zeira): According to you, that R. Shimon would agree with R. Yehoshua - but doesn't the Mishnah (in Maseches Pesachim, that was said by R. Shimon) teach that R. Eliezer and R. Yehoshua agree that (on Erev Pesach, Teluyah and Temeyah) are burned separately. But why not burn them together?

א"ל תמן טהורה היא דבר תורה (תרומה בעיינה היא) אתה הוא שגזרת לשורפה


Answer (R. Zeira to R. Bun bar Chiya): Here (the 6th hour on Erev Pesach), on a Torah level it is Tahor, but Rabbinically it must be burned, (so they must be burned separately. But at the 7th hour, when Chametz is prohibited on a Torah level, it permitted to burn them together.)

(בכל)[מכל] מקום ולא נפסלה בהיסח הדעת לא כן א"ר יוחנן היסח הדעת דבר תורה


Question (R. Bun bar Chiya): Even at the 6th hour, since he his mind was distracted from (safeguarding) the Terumah, it became disqualified on a Torah level? Didn't R. Yochanan teach that if one's mind was distracted from Terumah, it becomes disqualified on a Torah level?

חבית שנייה כר"מ תורה אחיזת דם כר"ש תורה (א"ל)[וזו אינה כן אלא] שהוא משמרה שלא תגע בטהרות אחרות


Answer: That might be true for the barrel that broke in the upper level - since it will go to waste, he allows his mind to be distracted; and for the Bechor who is anyway dying, one may put a blemish. But here it's different, as he is still safeguarding it from touching other Taharos.

התיב רבי יצחק בריה דר' חייא (ברובה)[כתובה] הגע עצמך שהיא נתונה על גבי גחלים


Question (R. Yitzchak son of R. Chiya the Scribe): When he put it on the coals to burn, he certainly takes his mind off of it and it should become permitted to burn Temeyah and Teluyah together?

א"ל לכשיתננה.


Answer: Once it has been put there to burn, it is permitted to mix them.

א"ר מנא לרבי שימי אתון אמרין יודי (ר"א)[ר' שמעון] לרבי יהושע ואפילו ר' יהושע לית היא ר' יהושע


Question (R. Mana to R. Shimi): You said (earlier) that R. Shimon agrees to R. Yehoshua. But even R. Yehoshua doesn't agree with R. Yehoshua?! (There's a seeming contradiction in R. Yehoshua himself. In the beginning of the Mishnah, R. Yehoshua permits only indirectly causing Terumah to become Tamei. And later he said that one may actively make Terumah Tamei?)

אמר ליה תניין אינון תמן (ר"מ)[ר' יוסי] בשם ר' יהושע ברם הכא ר"ש בשם ר' יהושע.


Answer (R. Shimi to R. Mana): There it was R. Yosi citing R. Yehoshua (who only permits indirectly causing Tumah) and here it was R. Shimon citing R. Yehoshua (who allows it even actively).