PAST DEDICATION
BAVA METZIA 43 (15 Sivan 5769) - Dedicated by Rabbi and Mrs. Mordecai Kornfeld in honor of the Bar Mitzvah of their son, Yehoshua Heshel Kornfeld. May he continue to grow in Torah and Yiras Shamayim and bring Nachas to his Creator.

1)

(a)Our Mishnah forbids a banker to use money that is handed to him wrapped. What leniency results from this Halachah?

(b)What will be the equivalent Din if the money is handed to him loose?

(c)And what will be the Din in the equivalent cases if the money is handed to a Balabos (a Shomer) for safekeeping.

(d)According to Rebbi Meir, a storekeeper has the same Din as a Shomer. What does Rebbi Yehudah say?

1)

(a)The Tana of of our Mishnah forbids a banker to use money that is handed to him wrapped. Consequently - he is not liable if it gets (stolen or) lost, (because he is only a Shomer Chinam, who is Patur from Geneivah va'Aveidah).

(b)If the money is handed to him loose - he will be permitted to use it, and Chayav should it get (stolen or) lost.

(c)If the money is handed to a Balabos (a Shomer) for safekeeping - he is never permitted to use it, and therefore Patur should it get (stolen or) lost.

(d)According to Rebbi Meir, a storekeeper has the same Din as a Shomer. Rebbi Yehudah - ascribes to him the Din of a banker.

2)

(a)What problem do we have with the prohibition of a banker from use money that is given to him wrapped?

(b)Rav Asi Amar Rav Yehudah answers that the money is not only wrapped, but sealed as well. What does Rav Mari say?

(c)Others present 'Kesher Meshuneh' as a She'eilah. How do we resolve it?

2)

(a)The problem with the prohibition of a banker from using money that is given to him wrapped is - that since it is normal to wrap money, how does the fact that it is wrapped indicate that the owner does not want the banker to use it.

(b)Rav Asi Amar Rav Yehudah answers that the Tana speaks when the money is not only wrapped, but sealed as well. Rav Mari - establishes our Mishnah by 'Kesher Meshuneh' (an unusual knot).

(c)Others present 'Kesher Meshu as a She'eilah - which remains unresolved.

3)

(a)According to Rav Huna, 'Mutarin, Yishtamesh Bahen. Leficach, Im Avdu, Chayav be'Achriyusan', incorporates Ne'ensu, and he interprets 'Avdu' like Rabah. How does Rabah sometimes interpret ...

1. ... Geneivah?

2. ... Aveidah?

(b)In the previous case, what will be the Din if the banker decided not to use the money?

(c)Rav Nachman exempts him from Onsin. What is the reason for this ruling?

(d)What did Rav Nachman tell Rava, to explain why the banker is even a Shomer Sachar, seeing as he did not actually use the money?

3)

(a)According to Rav Huna, 'Mutarin, Yishtamesh Bahen. Leficach, Im Avdu, Chayav be'Achriyusan', incorporates Ne'ensu, and he interprets 'Avdu' like Rabah, who sometimes interprets ...

1. ... Geneivah - as meaning through armed robbers, and ...

2. ... Aveidah - as when the owner's ship sunk in the sea (both of which are Onsin.

(b)In the previous case - the banker will be liable even if he decided not to use the money (just like any other Sho'el).

(c)Rav Nachman exempts him from Onsin - because, in his opinion, not having borrowed the money, he is only a Shomer Sachar unless he actually uses it.

(d)Rav Nachman told Rava that, despite the fact that the banker has not used the money, he is a Shomer Sachar - since the fact that he is permitted to use it should he need it, is certainly worth a P'rutah to him.

4)

(a)On what grounds does the Beraisa exempt the treasurer of Hekdesh from Me'ilah, if he deposits wrapped Hekdesh money which he thinks is his, with someone who subsequently spends it?

(b)

(c)What does the Tana say in the equivalent case, but where the treasurer handed him the money loose?

(d)Rav Nachman asked Rav Huna why, in the Seifa, the Tana needs to add the clause that the Shomer spent the money, seeing as, in his (Rav Huna's) opinion, he would be Chayav even if he didn't. What did Rav Huna reply?

4)

(a)The Beraisa exempts the treasurer of Hekdesh from Me'ilah, if he deposits wrapped Hekdesh money which he thinks is his, with someone who subsequently spends it - on the grounds that the Shomer, who should not have used it (even without knowing that the money belonged to Hekdesh), is not considered the treasurer's Shali'ach.

(b)Consequently, he is the who is Chayav.

(c)In the equivalent case, but where the treasurer handed him loose money - the Tana renders the treasurer Chayav, because the Shomer had a right to use the money (according to what he knew), and is therefore considered the treasurer's Shali'ach.

(d)Rav Nachman asked Rav Huna why, in the Seifa, the Tana needs to add the clause that the Shomer spent the money, seeing as, in his (Rav Huna's) opinion, he would be Chayav even if didn't; to which Rav Huna replied - that the Tana mentions that he spent it in the Seifa, only to balance the Reisha, where he teaches us that even if the Shomer actually spent it, the treasurer is still Patur.

5)

(a)Beis Shamai say that once a Shomer uses a Pikadon, 'Yilakeh be'Chaser u've'Yeser'. What do they mean by ...

1. ... 'be'Chaser'?

2. ... 'be'Yeser'?

(b)In which case will the Shomer not have to pay for the decrease in price?

(c)According to Beis Hillel, the Shomer pays 'ke'Sha'as Hotza'ah' (how much it was worth when he spent it). What does Rebbi Akiva say?

5)

(a)Beis Shamai say that once a Shomer uses a Pikadon, 'Yilakeh be'Chaser u've'Yeser'. By ...

1. ... 'Yilakeh be'Chaser' they mean - that (based on the Mishnah in Bava Kama 'Kol ha'Gazlanim Meshalmin ke'Sha'as ha'Gezeilah') if the object decreases in value before he destroyed it or got rid of it, the Shomer is obligated to pay the higher price.

2. ... 'Yilakeh be'Yeser' - that if the object increased in value, then he must pay the higher price (how much it was worth at the time that he got rid of it).

(b)The Shomer will not have to pay for the decrease in price - if the Pikadon is still available (in which case he says to the owner 'Harei she'Lecha Lefanecha' [Here take your article]).

(c)According to Beis Hillel, the Shomer pays 'ke'Sha'as Hotza'ah' (how much it was worth when he spent it). Rebbi Akiva says - that he pays its value at the time that they go to Beis-Din.

6)

(a)Rabah (or Rava) rules that if someone steals a barrel of wine worth a Zuz and it breaks after the price went up to four Zuzim, he pays one Zuz. How much must he pay, if he actually breaks the barrel or drinks the wine after its value has increased? Why is that?

(b)Then why, in the first case, does he only pay one Zuz?

(c)Assuming that Beis Hillel in our Mishnah ('ke'Sha'as Hotza'ah') means at the time when it is destroyed, why can they not be referring to the 'be'Chaser' of Beis Shamai?

(d)So we re-assume that they refer to 'be'Yeser'. What problem does this pose on Rabah (or Rava), if 'ke'Sha'as Hotza'ah' refers to the lower price of the Pikadon at the time when the Shomer received it from the owner?

6)

(a)Rabah (or Rava) rules that if someone steals a barrel of wine worth a Zuz and it breaks after the price went up to four Zuzim, he pays one Zuz. If he actually breaks the barrel or drinks the wine after its value has increased - he pays four Zuzim, because, seeing as, if the barrel had been available, he would have returned it as it is, it transpires that when he broke the barrel or drank the wine, he was committing a fresh theft and we rule 'Kol ha'Gazlanim Meshalmin ke'Sha'as ha'Gezeilah'.

(b)Nevertheless, in the first case, he only pays one Zuz - because, since he did not break the barrel, the only theft he committed was when he actually took it from the owner's house, and 'Kol ha'Gazlanim Meshalmin ... '.

(c)Assuming that Beis Hillel in our Mishnah ('ke'Sha'as Hotza'ah') means at the time when it is destroyed, they cannot be referring to the 'be'Chaser' of Beis Shamai - because the principle 'Kol ha'Gazlanim Meshalmin ... ' is unanimous, and Beis Hillel would not argue with it.

(d)So we reassume that they refer to 'be'Yeser'. If however, 'ke'Sha'as Hotza'ah' refers to the lower price of the Pikadon at the time when the Shomer received it from the owner - this presents Rabah (or Rava) with a problem, because it means that he will hold like Beis Shamai, which as we know, is unacceptable.

43b----------------------------------------43b

7)

(a)So we revert to the original assumption (that Beis Hillel argues with Beis Shamai by 'be'Chaser'. Why then, do they rule 'ke'Sha'as Hotza'ah (min ha'Olam)? Do they not hold of the principle 'Kol ha'Gazlanim ... '?

(b)How will they then hold in a case of 'be'Yeser'?

(c)What Kashya does this pose on Rava? What does Rava say regarding 'Shelichus Yad'?

7)

(a)So we revert to the original assumption (that Beis Hillel argues with Beis Shamai by 'be'Chaser'. And the reason that they rule 'ke'Sha'as Hotza'ah (min ha'Olam) is (not because they do not hold of the principle 'Kol ha'Gazlanim ... ', but ) because the Tana is speaking where the Shomer used the Pikadon, but without causing it to depreciate, in which case he is not a Gazlan (and 'Kol ha'Gazlanim ... ' will not apply); whereas according to Beis Shamai, who holds 'Shelichus Yad Einah Tzerichah Chesaron', he becomes a Gazlan as soon as he uses the Pikadon.

(b)Even Beis Hillel will agree however - that in a case of 'be'Yeser', the Shomer must pay the higher price (like Rabah).

(c)The Kashya this poses on Rava is - that once again this would mean that he holds like Beis Shamai (seeing as he holds 'Shelichus Yad Einah Tzerichah Chesaron').

8)

(a)So we try to establish the Machlokes where the Shomer borrowed the object without permission, and Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel argue about 'Sho'el she'Lo mi'Da'as'. What will each Tana then hold?

(b)Why does this too, pose a Kashya on Rava? What does Rava say about a 'Sho'el she'Lo mi'Da'as'?

8)

(a)So we try to establish the Machlokes where the Shomer borrowed the object without permission, and Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel argue about 'Sho'el she'Lo mi'Da'as' - Beis Shamai holds ' ... Gazlan Havi', and Beis Hillel, 'Sho'el Havi'.

(b)But this too poses a Kashya on Rava - who holds in Bava Basra that according to the Rabbanan 'Sho'el she'Lo mi'Da'as Gazlan Havi'. And it will mean once again that he will be following the opinion of Beis Shamai.

9)

(a)We finally conclude that Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel are not arguing about a value increase or decrease at all. Then what are they arguing about? What does 'Yeser' mean?

(b)In fact, Beis Shamai holds like Rebbi Meir in a Beraisa, and Beis Hillel, like Rebbi Yehudah, where they discuss a case where someone who stole a sheep which he shore or which gave birth to babies. What does ...

1. ... Rebbi Meir say there?

2. ... Rebbi Yehudah say?

(c)How do we prove this explanation from the Lashon 'Chaser ve'Yeser'?

9)

(a)We finally conclude that Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel are not arguing about a value increase or decrease at all, but about - where the article itself appreciated (e.g. through a growth of wool or the birth of a baby, or depreciated intrinsically.

(b)In fact, Beis Shamai holds like Rebbi Meir, and Beis Hillel, like Rebbi Yehudah, in a Beraisa, where they discuss a case where someone stole a sheep and shore its wool, or it gave birth to babies, where Rebbi ...

1. ... Meir says - that the Ganav must give the wool and the lambs to the owner.

2. ... Yehudah rules - that he may keep them.

(c)And we prove this explanation from the Lashon 'Chaser ve'Yeser' used by the Tana of our Mishnah - which implies an intrinsic increase or decrease, as opposed to 'Zol' and 'Yoker', which is what the Tana ought to have said had he merely been referring to an increase or decrease in its monetary value.

10)

(a)Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel rules like Rebbi Akiva, who says in our Mishnah that how the Shomer pays if he uses the article, will depend upon its value at the time of going to Beis-Din. How does he learn this from the Pasuk in Vayikra - "la'Asher Hu Lo Yitnenu be'Yom Ashmaso"?

(b)Then why will the Din differ if witnesses testify that he used it and who know how much the article cost at that time?

(c)Rav Oshaya queried Rav Yehudah on this point however, from Rebbi Asi Amar Rebbi Yochanan. How does Rebbi Asi explain the Pasuk " ... be'Yom Ashmaso"?

(d)What request did Rebbi Zeira make of Rebbi Aba bar Papa when the latter would go to Eretz Yisrael? Why did he ask him to take the long route through 'Sulma de'Tzur'?

10)

(a)Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel rules like Rebbi Akiva in our Mishnah, according to whom the criterion as to how much the Shomer will pay if he uses the article, is how much it is worth at the time of going to Beis-Din. He learns this from the Pasuk in Vayikra "la'Asher Hu Lo Yitnenu be'Yom Ashmaso" - seeing as his guilt is determined from the moment he admits to having used it.

(b)If witnesses testify that he used it and they also know how much the article cost at that time - then that is the moment of guilt.

(c)Rav Oshaya queried Rav Yehudah on this point however, from Rebbi Asi Amar Rebbi Yochanan, according to whom - " ... be'Yom Ashmaso" refers to the ruling of Beis-Din, irrespective of whether the Shomer's guilt comes to light through his own admission or through witnesses.

(d)Rebbi Zeira asked Rebbi Aba bar Papa that, when the latter would go to Eretz Yisrael - he should take the long route through 'Sulma de'Tzur', in order to ask Rebbi Ya'akov bar Idi (who lived there) whether his Rebbe Rebbi Yochanan, ruled like Rebbi Akiva or not.

11)

(a)Rebbi Aba bar Papa brought back the reply that Rebbi Yochanan had indeed ruled 'Halachah ke'Rebbi Akiva ... '. Which additional word had he heard from Rebbi Ya'akov bar Idi?

(b)How do we initially interpret 'Le'olam'?

(c)It might also come to preclude from Rebbi Yishmael (whom we discussed earlier in the Perek). What does this mean? What did Rebbi Yishmael say?

(d)Rava disagrees with Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel and with Rebbi Yochanan. Like which Tana does Rava rule?

11)

(a)Rebbi Aba bar Papa brought back the reply that Rebbi Yochanan had indeed ruled 'Halachah ke'Rebbi Akiva, but adding the word - 'Le'olam'.

(b)We initially interpret 'Le'olam' to mean - 'ke'Sha'as ha'Tevi'ah, even if there are witnesses.

(c)It might also come to preclude from Rebbi Yishmael (whom we discussed earlier in the Perek, and) who says - 'Lo Ba'inan Da'as Ba'alim', so Rebbi Yochanan says 'Halachah ke'Rebbi Akiva', and he is Chayav to pay 'ke'Sha'as ha'Tevi'ah', 'Le'olam', even if he put it back after using it (because Rebbi Akiva holds 'Ba'inan Da'as Ba'alim').

(d)Rava disagrees with Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel and with Rebbi Yochanan. He rules - like Beis Hillel ('Meshalem ke'Sha'as Hotza'ah).

12)

(a)Beis Shamai in our Mishnah considers a Shomer a Shole'ach Yad with Machshavah alone. What does Machshavah mean?

(b)What do Beis Hillel learn from the Pasuk in Mishpatim "Im Lo Shalach Yado bi'Meleches Re'eihu"?

(c)If, after the Shomer tilts the barrel of wine he is looking after and helps himself to a Revi'is of wine, the barrel breaks be'Oneis, the Tana obligates him to pay only for the Revi'is. Why is he not a Shole'ach Yad, who pays for the entire barrel?

(d)In which case would he have to pay for the entire barrel? How does he become a Shole'ach Yad?

12)

(a)Beis Shamai in our Mishnah considers a Shomer a Shole'ach Yad with Machshavah alone - meaning that if the Shomer merely stated his intention to use the Pikadon in the presence of two witnesses, without actually carrying out his intentions, he is nevertheless Chayav for subsequent Onsin, because of Shole'ach Yad be'Pikadon.

(b)Beis Hillel learn from the Pasuk "Im Lo Shalach Yado bi'Meleches Re'eihu" - that a Shomer is not considered Shole'ach Yad unless he actually uses the Pikadon.

(c)If, after the Shomer tilts the barrel of wine he is looking after and helps himself to a Revi'is of wine, the barrel breaks be'Oneis, the Tana obligates him to pay only for the Revi'is - not for the whole barrel, because Shelichus Yad requires a Kinyan (and one does not acquire a barrel by tilting it.

(d)He would become a Shole'ach Yad (and would be liable for any damage to the barrel - if he picked up the barrel before drinking the Revi'is of wine.

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