SHABBOS 145 (8 Av) - Dedicated l'Iluy Nishmas Mrs. Lily (Leah bas Pinchas) Kornfeld, who passed away on 8 Av 5765, by her daughter and son-in-law, Diane and Andy Koenigsberg and family. May Lily and her husband's love for Torah and for Eretz Yisrael continue in all of their descendants.

1)

(a)Rebbi Yirmiyah cites the Mishnah in Ma'asros. The Tana Kama there states 'ha'Machlik ba'Anavim, Lo Huchshar'. What does this mean?

(b)What does Rebbi Yehudah say?

(c)In light of what we just learned, how does Rebbi Yirmiyah attempt to establish the Machlokes?

(d)Rav Papa concludes however, that both Tana'im hold 'Mashkeh ha'Ba le'Ochel La'av ke'Ochel' (see Hagahos ha'Gra). On what grounds does the Tana Kama then hold 'Lo Huchshar'? What the basis of their Machlokes?

1)

(a)Rebbi Yirmiyah cites the Mishnah in Ma'asros, where the Tana Kama states 'ha'Machlik ba'Anavim, Lo Huchshar', meaning that - if a baker squeezes grapes on to his loaves of bread, they are not Muchshar Lekabel Tum'ah.

(b)Rebbi Yehudah says - that they are.

(c)In light of what we just learned, Rebbi Yirmiyah suggests that they are arguing over whether 'Mashkeh ha'Ba le'Ochel, ke'Ochel' (the Tana Kama), or not (Rebbi Yehudah).

(d)Rav Papa concludes however, that both Tana'im hold 'Mashkeh ha'Ba le'Ochel, La'av ke'Ochel' (see Hagahos ha'Gra). And the reason that the Tana Kama then hold 'Lo Huchshar' is - because he holds that liquid that stands to be destroyed (such as this case, since the fire draws and burns most of the juice), is not considered a liquid, whereas Rebbi Yehudah holds that it is.

2)

(a)Rav Papa tries to connect this Machlokes with the Beraisa which rules that if someone who bruises olives to make them sweet, they are Muchshar Lekabel Tum'ah. Why is that?

(b)What does he say in a case where he is bruising them to ...

1. ... soften the outside, in order to salt them (when they are hard, the salt falls off)?

2. ... to ascertain whether the oil is ready to come out?

(c)What does Rebbi Yehudah say?

(d)How does Rav Papa now explain this Machlokes?

(e)Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua agrees with this interpretation regarding the latter, but not regarding the former. How does he explain the Machlokes between the Tana Kama and Rebbi Yehudah in the case of 'ha'Mefatzei'a be'Zeisim'?

2)

(a)Rav Papa tries to connect this Machlokes with the Beraisa which rules that if someone bruises olives to make them sweet, they are Muchshar Lekabel Tum'ah - because he is pleased with the juice that emerges, since it helps to achieve his aim of making the olives tastier.

(b)But if the he is bruising them to ...

1. ... soften the outside, in order to salt them (when they are hard, the salt falls off) - then the olives are not Muchshar ... , and the same will apply to where he is doing it ...

2. ... to ascertain whether the oil is ready to come out.

(c)Rebbi Yehudah rules that the juice is Muchshar in the Seifa too (like he ruled in the previous Beraisa).

(d)Rav Papa explain this Machlokes like he explained the previous one - that according to the Tana Kama, liquid that liquid that stands to be destroyed is not considered a liquid, whereas Rebbi Yehudah holds that it is.

(e)Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua agrees with this interpretation regarding the latter, but not regarding the former. In his opinion - they are arguing over whether liquid that is used to create a sheen is still considered a liquid (Rebbi Yehudah) or not (the Tana Kama).

3)

(a)What does Rebbi Zeira ... Amar Rav permits squeezing a bunch of grapes into food. What does he say about squeezing ...

1. ... it into an empty dish?

2. ... fish to extract its juice? Why is that?

3)

(a)Rebbi Zeira ... Amar Rav permits squeezing a bunch of grapes into food - but he forbids squeezing ...

1. ... it into an empty dish. He permits however ...

2. ... squeezing fish to extract its juice, even into an empty dish, since fish juice is not considered a liquid but a solid.

(b)The former tow rulings conform - with Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel (on the previous Amud).

(c)Abaye objected, when Rav Dimi citing this dual ruling in the name of Rav - in that he had heard it quoted in the name of Shmuel.

(d)Rav Dimi replied - that he had personally heard it from the mouth of Rebbi Yirmiyah, who had heard it from Rebbi Zeira ... Rav Chiya bar Ashi and Rav.

(e)To stress his point, he quoted the Pasuk in Iyov - "Einai Ra'u ve'Lo Zar".

(b)With whose opinion do the earlier two rulings conform?

(c)On what grounds did Abaye object when Rav Dimi citing this dual ruling in the name of Rav?

(d)What did Rav Dimi reply, citing Rebbi Yirmiyah ... Rebbi Zeira ... Rav Chiya bar Ashi and Rav?

(e)Which Pasuk in Iyov did he quote to stress his point?

4)

(a)Abaye was referring to a Machlokes between Rav and Shmuel. What did Rav rule regarding pickled foods that one squeezed for ...

1. ... the food?

2. ... the liquid?

(b)And what did he say about squeezing well-cooked vegetables?

(c)Shmuel agreed with Rav regarding pickled food. What did he say about squeezing well-cooked vegetables?

(d)And in which point is Rebbi Yochanan more stringent than Shmuel?

4)

(a)Abaye was referring to a Machlokes between Rav and Shmuel. Rav rules that...

1. ... one may squeeze pickled foods for the food (to get rid of the excess juice), but that ...

2. ... if one squeezes pickled foods for the liquid, he is Patur Aval Asur.

(b)Squeezing well-cooked vegetables he says - is permitted either way.

(c)Shmuel agrees with Rav regarding pickled food, only he holds that squeezing well-cooked vegetables - has the same Din as squeezing pickled foods.

(d)Rebbi Yochanan is more stringent than Shmuel inasmuch as in his opinion - squeezing either for the juice is subject to a Chatas.

5)

(a)We cite a Beraisa which permits squeezing well cooked food on Shabbos for Shabbos but not for after Shabbos. What does the Tana say about squeezing olives and grapes?

(b)Why does this pose a Kashya on all of them?

(c)To answer it, each one amend 'Sochtin Kevashim be'Shabbos' to suit his opinion. How does ...

1. ... Rav amend it, in order to qualify it (before adding that Shelakos is permitted in any case)?

2. ... Shmuel amend it, after adding 've'Hu ha'Din li'Shelakos'?

3. ... Rebbi Yochanan amend it (before adding that pickled squeezing pickled foods for their juice carries a Chiyuv Chatas like squeezing olives and grapes)?

(d)What does Rav Chiya bar Ashi Amar Rav say about treading olives and grapes and other fruit (in order to extract their juice)?

5)

(a)We cite a Beraisa which permits squeezing well-cooked foods on Shabbos for Shabbos but not for after Shabbos. The Tana adds however - that someone who squeezes olives and grapes is Chayav a Chatas.

(b)This poses a Kashya on all three Amora'im - since the Tana permits squeezing well-cooked foods on Shabbos for Shabbos - irrespective of whether it is for the food or for the drink.

(c)To answer it, each one amends 'Sochtin Kevashim be'Shabbos' to suit his opinion.

1. Rav, in order to qualify it (before adding that Shelakos is permitted in any case) adds - 'Bameh Devarim Amurim, le'Gufan, Aval le'Meimeihen, Patur Aval Asur'.

2. Before adding 'Bameh Devarim Amurim, le'Gufan, Aval le'Meimeihen, Patur Aval Asur' Shmuel first adds - 've'Hu ha'Din li'Shelakos'.

3. Rebbi Yochanan, who begins like Shmuel, continues after 'Bameh Devarim Amurim, le'Gufan - Aval le'Meimeihen Lo Yischot, ve'Im Sachat, Na'aseh ke'Mi she'Sachat Zeisim va'Anavim, ve'Chayav Chatas'.

(d)Rav Chiya bar Ashi Amar Rav says - that the Torah only forbids treading olives and (in order to extract their juice), but not any other fruit, since it is (was) not conventional to do so.

6)

(a)The previous ruling is substantiated by Tana de'Bei Menasheh, who also issues a ruling in connection with 'Eid mi'Pi Eid'. What is 'Eid mi'Pi Eid'?

(b)What does Tana de'Bei Menasheh say about it?

(c)Why were the Chachamim lenient there more than anywhere else?

6)

(a)The previous ruling is substantiated by Tana de'Bei Menasheh, who also issues a ruling in connection with 'Eid mi'Pi Eid' - which is a witness who heard his testimony from a second witness who saw it, though he did not actually see it himself.

(b)The Tana rules - that it is only acceptable with regard to the testimony of a man who died, in order to permit his wife to get married.

(c)And the reason that the Chachamim were lenient there (and nowhere else) was - in order to prevent the woman from becoming an Aguna, though this is only permissible because every marriage is performed according to the whim of the Beis Din, in which case they have the right to negate any marriage, as they see fit.

7)

(a)Rebbi Ami queried Rebbi Asi, when he permitted Eid mi'Pi Eid by a Bechor Behemah. What is the witness testifying?

(b)What was Rebbi Ami's objection to Rebbi Asi's ruling?

(c)What did the latter answer? How did he interpret Tana de'Bei Menasheh's ruling?

(d)What did Mereimar call Rav Yeimar when he permitted Eid mi'Pi Eid by Bechor?

(e)What do we finally conclude in this regard?

7)

(a)Rebbi Ami queried Rebbi Asi, when he permitted Eid mi'Pi Eid by a Bechor Behemah where the witness testifies - that the blemish which the Bechor animal obtained after the Kohen received it from the Yisrael, was not caused by the Kohen.

(b)Rebbi Ami objected to Rebbi Asi's ruling on the grounds of what we just learned - that Eid mi'Pi Eid is only Kasher by Eidus Ishah.

(c)The latter answered however - that what Tana de'Bei Menashe rfeally meant was that it is only Kasher for testimonies that a woman is eligible to testify (and that includes Eidus Bechor).

(d)When Rav Yeimar permitted Eid mi'Pi Eid by Bechor, Mereimar (derogatorily) called him - 'Yeimar who permits a Bechor'.

(e)We nevertheless conclude - that Eid mi'pi Eid is Kasher by Bechor.

145b----------------------------------------145b

8)

(a)Rav Hoshaya from Neherda'a cites a Beraisa, where the Tana Kama forbids the juice of olives and grapes (which were pressed before Shabbos) that came out on Shabbos. What do Rebbi Elazar and Rebbi Shimon say?

(b)What problem does Rav Yosef have with Rebbi Hoshaya from Neherda'a?

(c)How does Abaye counter his Kashya? What else is this Beraisa coming to teach us over and above our Mishnah?

8)

(a)Rav Hoshaya from Neherda'a cites a Beraisa, where the Tana Kama forbids the juice of olives and grapes (which were pressed before Shabbos) that came out on Shabbos. Rebbi Elazar and Rebbi Shimon - permit it.

(b)The problem Rav Yosef has with Rebbi Hoshaya from Neherda'a is - that all he seems to be adding to our Mishnah is that Rebbi Shimon agrees with Rebbi Elazar.

(c)Abaye counters his Kashya however - by pointing out that, in addition, this Beraisa teaches us (over and above our Mishnah) - that they permit it even if it was originally a food, and the juice that comes out is a liquid (unlike the honey in our Mishnah, which is considered a food, like it was when it was still inside the honeycombs).

9)

(a)What does our Mishnah say about soaking something that has ...

1. ... been cooked before Shabbos?

2. ... not been cooked before Shabbos?

(b)What is one nevertheless permitted to do with it?

(c)What does the Tana preclude from this latter ruling (besides an old salted herring and small salted fish)?

(d)What is the reason for this?

9)

(a)Our Mishnah ...

1. ... permits soaking something that has been cooked before Shabbos, but

2. ... forbids something that has not ...

(b)... though he does allow washing it in hot water.

(c)The Tana precludes from this latter ruling (besides an old salted herring and small salted fish) - a thin-skinned fish called Kulyas ha'Ispanin, which are forbidden ...

(d)... because they are too salty to eat as they are - and washing the salt off is considered a Gemar Melachah (in which case one will be Chayav because of Tikun Manah (i.e. Makeh ba'Patish).

10)

(a)Rav Safra gives an example of something that has been cooked before Shabbos, and that may be placed in boiling water (even in a Kli Rishon) on Shabbos, Tarnegoles de'Bei Rebbi Aba. What was 'Tarnegoles de'Bei Rebbi Aba'? What purpose did it serve?

(b)What did Rebbi Aba give him to neutralize the strong after-effects of his chicken?

(c)What did Rav Yosef retort when he heard how Rebbi Yochanan spat when he recalled the Kutach ha'Bavli? Why did Rav Yosef see fit to make such a comment?

(d)He also quoted Rav Gaza, a Babylonian, who quoted the Yerushalmim differently. What happened when he once prepared some Kutach ha'Bavli in Eretz Yisrael?

10)

(a)Rav Safra gives an example of something that has been cooked before Shabbos, and that may be placed in boiling water (even in a Kli Rishon) on Shabbos, Tarnegoles de'Bei Rebbi Aba - a chicken which Rebbi Aba soaked in hot water for many days in order to melt its tail, which was then eaten as a cure.

(b)To neutralize the strong after-effects of his chicken, Rebbi Aba give Rav Safra - wine produced from a three-year old vine.

(c)When Rav Yosef - annoyed at the denigrating of a Babylonian specialty, heard how Rebbi Yochanan spat when he recalled the Kutach ha'Bavli, he retorted that they could just as well spit over the chicken of Rebbi Aba (who was a Yerushalmi).

(d)He also quoted Rav Gaza, a Babylonian, who quoted the Yerushalmim differently. He testified that when he once prepared some Kutach ha'Bavli in Eretz Yisrael - all the local sick came clamoring for some.

11)

(a)What did Rebbi Asi reply when Rebbi Chiya bar Aba asked him why ...

1. ... the birds of Bavel were fatter than those of Eretz Yisrael?

2. ... the people of Bavel rejoiced on Yom Tov more than those of Eretz Yisrael?

3. ... the Talmidei Chachamim wore finer clothing than those of Eretz Yisrael?

4. ... the Nochrim were sweaty?

(b)Rebbi Yochanan disagreed with Rebbi Asi. How did he address him and Rebbi Chiya bar Aba (his Talmidim)?

(c)Why did Rebbi Chiya bar Aba ask Rebbi Asi in the first place, and not Rebbi Yochanan?

(d)Rebbi Yochanan's objection was based on the Pasuk in Mishlei "Emor la'Chochmah Achosi At". How does he interpret it?

11)

(a)Rebbi Asi, in reply to Rebbi Chiya bar Aba's question, explained to him that ...

1. ... although for the most part, the birds of Bavel were fatter than those of Eretz Yisrael - if he cared to go Midbar Aza, he would find there birds that were much fatter than the Babylonian ones.

2. ... the people of Bavel rejoiced on Yom Tov more than those of Eretz Yisrael - because they were poor (and did not have the opportunity to rejoice the whole year round).

3. ... the Talmidei Chachamim wore finer clothing than those of Eretz Yisrael - because they were not B'nei Torah.

4. ... the Nochrim were sweaty - because they ate rodents.

(b)Rebbi Yochanan disagreed with Rebbi Asi. He addressed him and Rebbi Chiya bar Aba (his Talmidim) as - 'children'.

(c)Rebbi Chiya bar Aba asked Rebbi Asi in the first place, and not Rebbi Yochanan - because the latter was dozing (and appeared to be asleep).

(d)Rebbi Yochanan's objection was based on the Pasuk "Emor la'Chochmah Achosi At" - which he interprets to mean - that one should only issue rulings if one is as sure as one is of one's relationship with one's sister.

12)

(a)So how Rebbi Yochanan answer the four questions raised by Rebbi Chiya bar Aba?

(b)What does Rebbi Yochanan learn from the Pasuk in Yirmiyah "Sha'anan Moav mi'Ne'urav ... u'va'Golah Lo Halach"?

(c)Based on Rebbi Yehudah in a Beraisa, what is the significance of the fifty-two years that nobody passed through Yehudah? Why not seventy?

(d)No bird, animal or fish it seems, was to be found there either. In this context, what does Rebbi Ya'akov Amar Rebbi Yochanan say about the Kulyas ha'Ispanin? In which way did it differ from all its contemporaries?

(e)Why was that?

12)

(a)Rebbi Yochanan therefore answered the four questions raised by Rebbi Chiya bar Aba as follows ...The birds of Bavel were fatter than those of Eretz Yisrael - because they did not go into exile.The people of Bavel rejoiced on Yom Tov more than those of Eretz Yisrael - because they were not included in the curse that Hash-m (cited in Hoshe'a) would dispel the joys of Shabbos, Yom Tov and Rosh Chodesh of those living in Eretz Yisrael, because He hated them.The Talmidei Chachamim wore finer clothing than those of Eretz Yisrael - because they were away from home and needed to look good, in order to gain their self-respect.The Nochrim were sweaty - because they did not stand at Har Sinai (where the 'Zuhama' that the Nachash injected into Chava and all her descendents, dissipated).

(b)Rebbi Yochanan learns from the Pasuk "Sha'anan Moav mi'Ne'urav ... u'va'Golah Lo Halach" - that someone who does not go into Galus is able to develop better than someone who does (hence the birds in Bavel were fatter than their counterparts in Eretz Yisrael).

(c)Based on Rebbi Yehudah in a Beraisa, the significance of the fifty-two years that nobody passed through Yehudah - is that the first exiles returned to Eretz Yisrael with orders from Koresh King of Persia to build the foundations of the second Beis Hamikdash.

(d)No bird, animal or fish it seems, was to be found there either. In this context, Rebbi Ya'akov Amar Rebbi Yochanan explains - that although all the other creatures returned, the Kulyas ha'Ispanin was unable to do so...

(e)... because it was too weak to swim upstream via the underground fountains from Bavel to Eretz Yisrael (bearing in mind that Bavel is extremely low).

13)

(a)The Pasuk in Hoshe'a (in connection with the negated joy of Yom Tov) concludes "Hayu Alai la'Torach". What does Rebbi Elazar learn from there?

(b)Why did various gentile leaders come to Tzipori and Teverya each Yom Tov? What did they do there?

(c)What made them do that?

13)

(a)The Pasuk in Hoshe'a (in connection with the negated joy of Yom Tov) concludes "Hayu Alai la'Torach", from which Rebbi Elazar learns - that not only did Yisrael sin before Hash-m, but they forced Him (Kevayachol) to go to the trouble of letting them know what He had decree as a punishment.

(b)Various gentile leaders come to Tzipori and Teverya each Yom Tov - to plunder and place taxes on them, not specifically in order to deprive them of Simchas Yom Tov, but ...

(c)... in fulfillment of Hash-m's decree that they would not enjoy Yom Tov (as we explained earlier).

14)

(a)What do we learn from the Pasuk in Yeshayah "ha'Ba'im Yashresh Ya'akov, Yatzitz u'Farach Yisrael"? How does this prove Rebbi Yochanan's explanation as to why the Bavli'im wore nice clothes?

(b)Rav Acha bar Ya'akov queried Rebbi Yochanan from the Geirim, who did not stand at Har Sinai, yet they are not sweaty like the gentiles. What did Rav Ashi reply, based on the Pasuk in Nitzavim "Es Asher Yeshno Poh Imanu ha'Yom ve'es Asher Einenu Poh ... ".

(c)Rebbi Aba bar Kahana disagrees with Rebbi Yochanan, who says that the sweatiness of Yisrael left them at Har Sinai. What does he say?

14)

(a)"ha'Ba'im Yashresh Ya'akov, Yatzitz u'Farach Yisrael" - refers to the Talmidei Chachamim of Bavel, who developed blossoms and flowers for the Torah (presumably, this refers to the sharpness of Talmud Bavli - the Shakla ve'Tarya which is not present in the Talmud Yerushalmi) - a proof that the Bavli'im were B'nei Torah, and the reason that they wore nice clothes was for their own self-respect, as we explained.

(b)Rav Acha bar Ya'akov queried Rebbi Yochanan from the Geirim, who did not stand at Har Sinai, yet they are not sweaty like the gentiles. Based on the Pasuk "Es Asher Yeshno Poh Imanu ha'Yom ve'es Asher Einenu Poh ... ", Rav Ashi replied - that even though their bodies did not stand at Har Sinai, their Mazalos (their souls) did (and that was sufficient to cure them of all ailments and to remove the sweat from them).

(c)Rebbi Aba bar Kahana disagrees with Rebbi Yochanan, who says that the sweatiness of Yisrael left them at Har Sinai. According to him - it took three generations (Avraham still gave birth to Yishmael, and Yitzchak, to Eisav; whereas Ya'akov's children were all Tzadikim, sign that the Zuhama had been expelled).

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