NIDAH 68 (9 Av) - Dedicated by Mrs. Gitti Kornfeld in memory of her father, Reb Yisrael Shimon ben Shlomo ha'Levi Turkel, whose Yahrzeit is on 10 Av.

1)

(a)When Rava once Darshened that a woman is permitted to perform the Chafifah on Erev Shabbos and Tovel on Motza'ei Shabbos, Rav Papa objected on the basis of a letter sent by Ravin. What did Ravin write in the letter?

(b)What did he mean when he inserted 'Tamah al Atzm'cha He'ach Chofefes be'Yom ... '?

(c)What did Rava subsequently declare?

1)

(a)When Rava once Darshened that a woman is permitted to perform the Chafifah on Erev Shabbos and Tovel on Motza'ei Shabbos, Rav Papa objected on the basis of a letter sent by Ravin - forbidding her to do so.

(b)When he inserted 'Tamah al Atzm'cha He'ach Chofefes be'Yom ... ' he meant that - the Chachamim were extremely loathe to permit such a break between the two (permitting only where the alternative is to make it after nightfall before the Tevilah, as we will see shortly).

(c)Rava subsequently declared that - he had retracted from his original ruling, in view of Rebbi Yochanan (whom Ravin usually quotes).

2)

(a)What problem do we have with the ruling that a woman performs the Chafifah by day and the Tevilah by night? What second ruling clashes with that?

(b)How do we reconcile the two rulings?

2)

(a)The problem with the ruling that a woman performs the Chafifah by day and the Tevilah by night is - from a second ruling, which requires the Chafifah to be performed at night-time before the Tevilah.

(b)We reconcile the two rulings - by establishing the former ruling where it is possible to perform the Chafifah by day (immediately prior to the Tevilah), and the latter one, where it is not (such as Shabbos and Motza'ei Yom-Tov), when there will be a long time gap in between.

3)

(a)Our Mishnah discusses a Nidah who examined herself on the seventh morning but not during Bein ha'Shemashos (dusk). What does the Tana Kama rule, regarding the intervening days, in a case where, in the morning, she found that she was ...

1. ... Tahor, examined herself again a few days later and discovered that she was Tamei?

2. ... Tamei, examined herself again a few days later and discovered that she was Tahor?

(b)In the earlier case, for how long does Chezkas Taharah last, assuming that she ...

1. ... does not have a Veses?

2. ... has a Veses?

(c)Rebbi Yehudah disagrees with the Tana Kama's first ruling. What does he say?

(d)What do the Chachamim hold?

3)

(a)Our Mishnah discusses a Nidah who examined herself on the seventh morning but not during Bein ha'Shemashos (dusk). The Tana Kama rules that, in a case where in the morning, she found that she was ...

1. ... Tahor, examined herself again a few days later and discovered that she was Tamei - she is considered as having been Tahor regarding the intervening days.

2. ... Tamei, examined herself again a few days later and discovered that she was Tahor, she is considered Tamei.

(b)In the earlier case, her Chezkas Taharah lasts (assuming that she ...

1. ... does not have a Veses) - up to a Me'eis Le'eis before she discoves that she is Tamei.

2. ... has a Veses - up to the time that she discovers that she is Tamei.

(c)Rebbi Yehudah disagrees with the Tana Kama's first ruling. In his opinion - as long as she does not separate be'Taharah (during the Bein-ha'Shemashos of the seventh day), she has a Chezkas Tum'ah.

(d)The Chachamim maintain that - as long as the last Bedikah (even if it was on the second day) finds her Tahor, she has a Chezkas Taharah.

4)

(a)Rav rules that the woman is a Zavah Vaday. What does Levi say?

(b)Why can they not be referring to the Mishnah's ...

1. ... former case?

2. ... latter case?

(c)On what grounds will Levi declare her a Safek Zavah in this latter case?

(d)So we conclude that they are arguing independently over a third case. Which case is that?

4)

(a)Rav rules that the woman is a Zavah Vaday; Levi - considers her a Safek.

(b)They cannot be referring to the Mishnah's ...

1. ... former case - because the Tana declares her Tahor, not Tamei.

2. ... latter case - because, seeing as the last Bedikah finds her Tahor, how can Rav declare her a Vaday Zavah.

(c)Levi declares her a Safek Zavah - because she may have seen on the eighth, ninth and tenth days.

(d)So we conclude that they are arguing independently over a third case - where her Bedikah on the seventh morning found her Tamei, and, although she separated without a Bedikah, when she later examined herself, she discovered that she was Tamei.

5)

(a)According to Rav, seeing as she was Tamei during both Bedikos, she is Vaday Tamei (since he assumes that she saw on three consecutive days). What does Levi say to that?

(b)Levi's source for his opinion lies in a Beraisa, which states that - should she later examine herself, she will be a Safek Zavah, whether she finds blood or not. Which case is the Tana referring to?

5)

(a)Rav holds that, seeing as she was Tamei during both Bedikos, she is Vaday Tamei (since he assumes that she saw on three consecutive days). Levi however, counters that - she may have not had a sighting on one or two of the days in between, so how can she be a Vaday Zavah?

(b)Levi's source lies in a Beraisa, which states - with direct reference to the Seifa in our Mishnah, that should she later examine herself, she will be a Safek Zavah, whether she finds blood or not.

68b----------------------------------------68b

6)

(a)We already cited Rava, who extrapolates from the Mishnah in the fourth Perek that a woman is not Metamei Me'eis Le'eis during the days of Zivus. What problem do we have with this from our Mishnah?

(b)But did we not already disprove him there?

(c)How do we refute the Kashya? To what might the statement 'u'Metam'ah Me'eis Le'eis' be referring?

(d)Why might we have thought otherwise?

6)

(a)We already cited Rava, who extrapolates from the Mishnah in the fourth Perek that a woman is not Metamei Me'eis Le'eis during the days of Zivus. There is a problem with this from our Mishnah, which specifically states 'u'Metam'ah Me'eis Le'eis' following a case which deals with the days of Zivus.

(b)Granted, we already disproved Rava there - yet it is the way of the Gemara to try and disprove him again from other sources (especially as this is a Mishnah, whilst there the disproof is from a Beraisa [Aruch la'Ner]).

(c)We refute the Kashya however - by connecting 'u'Metam'ah Me'eis Le'eis' to the statement in the opening Mishnah in the Perek 'Ra'asah ve'Od be'Veis Avihah ... ' where Beis Hillel gives her the entire night, and where the Tana now teaches us that should she subsequently see, she is Metamei Me'eis Le'eis.

(d)We might have thought otherwise - because, since there were days of Taharah in between, she might perhaps return to being a Besulah once more (see Tosfos ha'Rosh).

7)

(a)We learned in our Mishnah 'Im Yesh lah Veses, Dayah Sha'atah'. Assuming that this refers to our current Mishnah (and not to the opening Mishnah, like we just learned according to Rava), we query Rav Huna bar Chiya from there. What did Rav Huna bar Chiya Amar Shmuel say about fixing a Veses during the days of Zivus?

(b)What do we answer? What did Rav Huna bar Chiya mean when he said that a woman does fix a Veses during the days of Zivus?

(c)What is his reason?

7)

(a)We learned in our Mishnah 'Im Yesh lah Veses, Dayah Sha'atah'. Assuming that this refers to our current Mishnah (and not to the opening Mishnah, like we just learned according to Rava), we query from there Rav Huna bar Chiya Amar Shmuel who said that - one cannot fix a Veses during the days of Zivus.

(b)We answer that what Rav Huna bar Chiya meant was that - during the days of Zivus, she does not require three times to negate the existing Veses ...

(c)... seeing as she has a Chezkas Taharah anyway (which in turn, is based on the fact that the Dam Nidus has momentarily ceased). And that is precisely why our Mishnah rules 'Dayah Sha'atah'.

8)

(a)What did the Chachamim ask Rebbi Yehudah? Why ought there to be no difference between a woman who separates on the seventh day from Bein ha'Shemashos and onwards and one who separates on the first day?

(b)On what grounds do we query the Chachamim's contention that the first day ought to be permitted too? What prompts us to ask this?

(c)We answer by citing a Beraisa, where Rebbi asked Rebbi Yossi and Rebbi Shimon a series of She'eilos (the first being the opening case in our Mishnah), which they answered with 'Harei Zu be'Chezkas Taharah'. Which other five She'eilos did he ask them?

(d)Why did he stop at the second day?

8)

(a)The Chachamim asked Rebbi Yehudah that - just as according to him, it is not necessary for the woman to examine herself the entire Bein ha'Shemashos of the seventh day (see Seifer 'Eizehu Mekoman'), and she will be Tahor despite the possibility that she saw the moment she removed her hand), so too, ought it to suffice for her to have made the inspection on the first day only (despite the possibility that she saw later).

(b)We query the Chachamim's contention that the first day ought to be permitted too - in that everyone seems to concede that it is not (even the Chachamim in our Mishnah, who only mention the second day.

(c)We answer by citing a Beraisa, where Rebbi asked Rebbi Yossi and Rebbi Shimon a series of She'eilos (the first being the opening case in our Mishnah), which they answered with 'Harei Zu be'Chezkas Taharah'. He then asked them what the Din will be - if she examines herself, not on the seventh, but on the sixth, the fifth, the fourth, the third or the second day.

(d)He stopped at the second day - because he took for granted that nobody would declare her Tahor on the first (as we will see).

9)

(a)Why did Rebbi later express regret for not having asked about the first day?

(b)Then what did he initially think?

9)

(a)Rebbi later expressed regret for not having asked about the first day - because it is no less be'Chezkas Tamei than all the other days, yet Rebbi Yossi and Rebbi Shimon ruled that she has a Chezkas Taharah.

(b)He initially thought that - the first day that she saw is worse than the other days, because it is the day on which her Ma'ayan has a Chazakah of being open.

10)

(a)According to Rebbi Eliezer in our Mishnah, a Zav or a Zavah who observe only the first and the seventh days of the seven clean days, are be'Chezkas Taharah. What does Rebbi Yehoshua say?

(b)On what basis does Rebbi Akiva allow them only one clean day?

(c)Rebbi Eliezer in a Beraisa queried Rebbi Yehoshua. What does he try to prove by citing the Pasuk "Achar Tit'har"?

(d)What did Rebbi Yehoshua reply, based on ...

1. ... a Zav she'Ra'ah Keri?

2. ... a Nazir who became Tamei through S'chachos and Pera'os (which are Safek Tamei [as we learned in the seventh Perek])? What does he learn from the Pasuk in Naso "ve'ha'Yamim ha'Rishonim Yiplu"?

10)

(a)According to Rebbi Eliezer in our Mishnah, a Zav or Zavah who observe only the first and the seventh days of the seven clean days, nevertheless have a Chezkas Taharah. According to Rebbi Yehoshua - they only have two days (the days that they observed).

(b)Rebbi Akiva allows them only one clean day - the seventh day, because if they saw on one of the intervening days, they will negate the preceding days, which began with their examination on the first day.

(c)Rebbi Eliezer in a Beraisa queried Rebbi Yehoshua. By citing the Pasuk "Achar Tit'har", he tried to prove that - the clean days must be consecutive.

(d)Rebbi Yehoshua replied that we see from ...

1. ... a Zav she'Ra'ah Keri - (which only negates one day, and from ...

2. ... a Nazir who became Tamei through S'chachos and Pera'os (which are Safek Tamei [as we learned in the seventh Perek], and which lose her only seven days out of the thirty days of Nezirus) despite the Pasuk in Naso "ve'ha'Yamim ha'Rishonim Yiplu" that - sometimes, the clean days do not need to be consecutive.

11)

(a)How did Rebbi Eliezer counter Rebbi Yehoshua's answer. What did he learn from the Pasuk "Letam'ah bah"?

(b)And even if Rebbi Eliezer's query is based on the concern (mi'de'Rabbanan) that people will confuse counting two days of Safek Zivus for Vaday, why does this not worry him with regard to confusing Zav with ...

1. ... Ba'al-Keri?

2. ... S'chachos and Pera'os?

(c)What is then his concern in our case?

11)

(a)Rebbi Eliezer countered Rebbi Yehoshua's answer - by citing the Pasuk "Letam'ah bah" from which we learn that - a Zav who sees Keri, negates only the day on which he sees.

(b)Even though Rebbi Eliezer's query is based on the concern (mi'de'Rabbanan) that people will confuse counting two days of Safek Zivus for Vaday (see Maharam), this does not worry him with regard to confusing Zav with ...

1. ... Ba'al-Keri - because everyone knows the difference between a Zav and a Ba'al-Keri.

2. ... S'chachos and Pera'os - which are Tum'os Ohel mi'de'Rabanan, and nobody will confuse a Tum'ah d'Oraysa with a Tum'ah de'Rabbanan.

(c)And his concern in our case is that - if one allows counting the first day in spite of the Safek days in between, people will count it even if the days in between are Vaday Tamei.

12)

(a)We learned in a Beraisa that Rebbi Yossi and Rebbi Shimon prefer Rebbi Eliezer's opinion to that of Rebbi Yehoshua. Why is that?

(b)And why do they prefer Rebbi Akiva's opinion to that of Rebbi Eliezer?

(c)How do they nevertheless rule?

12)

(a)We learned in a Beraisa that Rebbi Yossi and Rebbi Shimon prefer Rebbi Eliezer's opinion to that of Rebbi Yehoshua - because seeing as the latter suspects that she may have seen between the second and the seventh days, then he ought to negate the first sighting as well.

(b)And they prefer Rebbi Akiva's opinion to that of Rebbi Eliezer - because it is logical for each day to be counted, as well as examined.

(c)Nevertheless, they rule - like Rebbi Eliezer.

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