NIDAH 63 - Dedicated l'Iluy Nishmas Reb Aharon Dovid ben Elimelech Shmuel Kornfeld (Muncasz/Israel/New York), who passed away on 3 Av 5761, by his daughter, Shifra, and family. May his love for Torah and for Eretz Yisrael be preserved in all of his descendants.

1)

(a)On what grounds did Rava object to Rav Papa, who explained the Beraisa (in connection with Rok Tapal in our Mishnah) 'Kol she'Lo Ta'am K'lum mi'ba'Erev' to mean that he did not eat the whole of the day before, as well as the following night?

(b)What does 'mi'ba'Erev' then come to preclude? When will it not be considered Rok Tapal?

(c)How does Rabah bar bar Chanah define Rok Tapal? What must he be doing at midnight?

(d)On what is all this based. How do eating and sleeping respectively affect the spit?

1)

(a)Rava objected to Rav Papa, who explained the Beraisa (in connection with Rok Tapal in our Mishnah) 'Kol she'Lo Ta'am K'lum mi'ba'Erev' to mean that the spit comes from someone who did not eat the whole of the day before, as well as the following night, because - 'mi'ba'Erev' implies that one only needs not to have eaten from night-time and onwards ...

(b)... to preclude - there where one ate something during the night (see Rashash).

(c)Rabah bar bar Chanah defines Rok Tapal as - where one slept through midnight.

(d)All this is based on the fact - that sleeping turns the spit bitter, whereas eating makes it sweet.

2)

(a)We query this however, from a Beraisa, which declares that, if someone sleeps all day (after eating something in the morning) it is not Rok Tapal. How will Rabah bar bar Chanah explain the continuation of the Beraisa 'Ni'er Kol ha'Laylah, harei Zeh Rok Tapal'?

(b)Rav Ashi interprets 'Misnamnem' as someone who is half asleep and half awake. How does he define it further in practical terms?

(c)Another Beraisa rules that if someone gets up early in the morning and learns, his spit will not be Rok Tapal. Why is that?

(d)According to Rav Yehudah bar Shiloh ... Amar Rebbi Elazar, how long will he have to learn in order to negate the strength of Rok Tapal?

2)

(a)We query this however, from a Beraisa, which declares that if someone sleeps all day (after eating something in the morning) it is not Rok Tapal. Rabah bar bar Chanah will explain the continuation of the Beraisa 'Ni'er Kol ha'Laylah, harei Zeh Rok Tapal' to mean that - he dozed (even though he did not sleep properly).

(b)Rav Ashi interprets 'Misnamnem' as someone who is half asleep and half awake, adding that, in practical terms, this means - that if called, he is able to answer simple questions without being able to recall the reason, although he will remember it when he hears it.

(c)Another Beraisa rules that if someone gets up early in the morning and learns, his spit will not be Rok Tapal - because speech, like eating, weakens the strength of the spit.

(d)According to Rav Yehudah bar Shiloh ... Amar Rebbi Elazar, he will have to learn for - the best part of three hours in order to negate the strength of Rok Tapal.

3)

(a)We suggest that our Mishnah, which requires the Mei G'risin to be chewed, is proof for Resh Lakish. What did Resh Lakish say about Rok Tapal?

(b)How do we counter the proof? What might it be other than Rok Tapal, that is good for the Mei G'risin?

(c)Our Mishnah does not go like Rebbi Yehudah, who requires boiled Mei G'risin. What does he mean when he says 've'Over she'Yiten le'Socho Melach'?

(d)What does Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak learn from the Pasuk in Shmuel "va'Yaratz Achima'atz Derech ha'Kikar, va'Ya'avor es ha'Kushi"?

(e)Others learn it from the Pasuk in Michah "va'Ya'avor Malkam Lifneihem, va'Hashem Lifneihem". From which Pasuk in Vayishlach (in connection with Ya'akov's meeting with Eisav) does Abaye learn it?

3)

(a)We suggest that our Mishnah, which requires the Mei G'risin to be chewed, is proof for Resh Lakish, who says that - each of the other Samemanim requires Rok Tapal to be mixed with them (because we assume that what is good for one of them is also good for all of them).

(b)We counter this however - by suggesting that perhaps it is merely his breath that enhances the Mei G'risin.

(c)Our Mishnah does not go like Rebbi Yehudah, who requires boiled Mei G'risin 've'Over she'Yiten le'Socho Melach' - before salt has been added (since salt weakens its potency).

(d)Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak learns from the Pasuk in Shmuel "va'Yaratz Achima'atz Derech ha'Kikar, va'Ya'avor es ha'Kushi" that - 'Over' has connotations of before (coming in front of in the context of the Pasuk [see Nimukei ha'G'riv and Rashash]).

(e)Others learn it from the Pasuk in Michah "va'Ya'avor Malkam Lifneihem, va'Hashem Lifneihem", whereas Abaye learns it from the Pasuk in Vayishlach, in connection with Ya'akov's meeting with Eisav - "ve'Hu Avar Lefneihem".

4)

(a)What Shi'ur does the Beraisa give for Mei Raglayim she'Hichmitzu (which turned sour)?

(b)What did Rebbi Yochanan comment about all the Shi'urim given by the Chachamim in connection with Kesamim?

(c)He cites four areas of contention. Whether it is 1. the urine of a child or of an old man, 2. covered or uncovered and 3. that of a male or of a female. What is the fourth?

(d)Which is indeed preferable, with regard to the first, second and fourth cases?

4)

(a)The Shi'ur the Beraisa gives for Mei Raglayim she'Hichmitzu (which turned sour) is that - it is three days old.

(b)Rebbi Yochanan commented on all the Shi'urim given by the Chachamim in connection with Kesamim (though it is not clear what 'all' is coming to include) - that a further Shi'ur is required to clarify the first one.

(c)He cites four areas of contention: whether the urine is 1. that of a child or of an old man, 2. covered or uncovered, 3. of a male or of a female - and 4. in summer or in winter.

(d)In fact, it appears - the urine of an old man which is covered, and in the summer, is preferable .

5)

(a)We learned in our Mishnah that one needs to rub each of the Samemanim three times. Which two possible interpretations does Rebbi Yirmiyah lend to this statement?

(b)Which of the two is in fact, accepted?

(c)One Beraisa learns that if the washers of the Kesamim gave precedence to the second Kesem before the first, the second rubbing is the one that counts. What does a second Beraisa say?

(d)How does Abaye reconcile the two Beraisos? What does 'first' in the latter Beraisa mean?

5)

(a)We learned in our Mishnah that one needs to rub each of the Samemanim three times, which according to Rebbi Yirmiyah means either rubbing once in an away direction, once back towards oneself and again away, or three times away and back.

(b)In fact - this She'eilah remains unresolved ('Teiku').

(c)One Beraisa learns that if the washers of the Kesamim gave precedence to the second Kesem before the first, the second rubbing is the one that counts. A second Beraisa - maintains that it is the first one.

(d)Abaye explains that - the second Beraisa actually agrees with the first one, only when the Tana says 'first', he is referring to the required order, not to the order in which they were actually applied.

6)

(a)After ruling 'Dayah Sha'atah' with regard to every woman who has a Veses, our Mishnah lists various things that form a Veses. What is it that turns these things into a Veses?

(b)If 'Mefahekes' means to stretch, what does 'Me'ateshes' mean?

(c)Where might the woman feel a pain, besides in the area of the navel?

(d)'ve'Shofa'as' seems to mean that she sees blood all the time (and will be explained shortly). What is the last item on the Tana's list?

6)

(a)After ruling 'Dayah Sha'atah' with regard to every woman who has a Veses, our Mishnah lists various things that form a Veses - after they have occurred three times (consecutively) before sighting blood.

(b)'Mefahekes' means to stretch), 'Me'ateshes' - to sneeze or to let a wind.

(c)The woman might feel a pain either in the area of the navel - or in the area of the womb.

(d)'ve'Shofa'as' seems to mean that she sees blood all the time (and will be explained shortly). The last item on the Tana's list is that - her skin wrinkles before each sighting.

7)

(a)How do we answer the Kashya that the opening phrase of our Mishnah 'Kol Ishah she'Yesh lah Veses, Dayah Sha'atah' seems to be no more than a repetition of the opening Mishnah of the Masechta?

(b)What problem do we have with the Veses described as 've'Shofa'as'?

(c)How does Ula b'rei de'Rav Ila'i answer this? How does he interpret 'Shofa'as'?

7)

(a)We answer the Kashya that the opening phrase of our Mishnah 'Kol Ishah she'Yesh lah Veses, Dayah Sha'atah' seems to be merely a repetition of the opening Mishnah in the Masechta - by establishing the former by a Veses of days, and the latter, by one of bodily functions.

(b)The problem with the Veses described as 've'Shofa'as' is that - if she sees blood incessantly, then she does not have a Veses (see Rashash).

(c)Ula b'rei de'Rav Ila'i answers this by interpreting 'Shofa'as' to mean that - she always sees Dam Tamei immediately after Dam Tahor.

63b----------------------------------------63b

8)

(a)What statement does our Mishnah add, after concluding its list of Vestos de'Gufa?

(b)Besides a woman whose head or limbs feel heavy on her, this comes to include Roseses and Gosah. What is ...

1. ... 'Roseses'?

2. ... 'Gosah'?

8)

(a)After concluding the list of Vestos de'Gufa, our Mishnah adds the statement - 've'Chein ke'Yotzei bahen' (incorporating whatever is similar to the above).

(b)Besides a woman whose head or limbs feel heavy on her, this comes to include ...

1. ... Roseses - a woman who shudders, and ..

2. ... Gosah - a woman who yawns.

9)

(a)What does Rav Huna bar Chiya Amar Shmuel mean when he says ...

1. ... 'le'Yamim Shenayim'? According to which Tana does this go?

2. ... 'le'Vestos Echad', (according to Rebbi)?

(b)What does he say then requires 'three'? Why is that (see Tosfos DH 'le'Yamim')?

(c)On what grounds does Abaye object to Rav Yosef 's interpretation of 'le'Mah she'Lo Manu Chachamim' as the three that we just mentioned?

(d)So he establishes 'Shalosh' by a woman who eats garlic or onions, or who chews peppers before seeing. What makes that different according to Rebbi (see Tosfos DH 'Achlah')?

9)

(a)When Rav Huna bar Chiya Amar Shmuel says ...

1. ... 'le'Yamim Shenayim', he means that - a Veses of days is fixed after two consecutive sightings on the same day (like Rebbi who holds that twice fixes a Chazakah).

2. ... 'le'Vestos Echad', he means that - according to Rebbi, a Veses de'Gufa is fixed after just one time.

(b)And he says that - even according to Rebbi, the things not listed by the Chachamim requires three - because they do not constitute a proper Veses (Tosfos DH 'le'Yamim').

(c)Abaye objects to Rav Yosef 's interpretation of 'le'Mah she'Lo Manu Chachamim' as the three that we just mentioned - since we already know that from Rabah bar Ula's interpretation of our Mishnah (which specifically requires three times).

(d)So he establishes Shalosh by a woman who eats garlic or onions, or who chews peppers before seeing. And the reason that they are different, according to Rebbi is - because, since they follow an action on the woman's part, they are not considered a proper Veses either (Tosfos DH 'Achlah').

10)

(a)What did Abaye comment, when Rav Yosef claimed that he had never heard the previous statement of Shmuel?

(b)Abaye cites a Beraisa, which discusses a woman who was used to seeing blood on the fifteenth of the month, but who changed to the twentieth. What does the Tana rule ...

1. ... in that case?

2. ... in a case where she continued to see on the twentieth, another two times?

(c)What had Rav Yosef commented on that? Citing Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel, like which Tana (quoting Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel), had he established it?

10)

(a)When Rav Yosef claimed that he had never heard the previous statement of Shmuel, Abaye commented that - not only had he heard it, but that he had actually taught it to them, in connection with the Beraisa that we will now discuss.

(b)Discussing a woman who was used to seeing blood on the fifteenth of the month and changed to the twentieth, the Tana rules ...

1. ... that - she must now examine herself on both days, when they fall due. But ...

2. ... in a case where she sees on the twentieth another two times - then she may drop the fifteenth, and assume that her Veses will take place on the twentieth.

(c)Citing Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel, Rav Yosef had commented that - this was the opinion of Rabban Gamliel the son of Rebbi, quoting (his grandfather) Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel.

11)

(a)What would the Chachamim then say? Whose opinion is the Chachamim?

(b)What problem do we have with this statement?

(c)How do we therefore interpret ...

1. ... 'Lo Leshanos'?

2. ... 'Lo Leshalosh'?

(d)Why did Shmuel see fit to mention Rabban Gamliel b'Rebbi at all? Why not just cite Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel directly?

11)

(a)The Chachamim (alias Rebbi) would then say - ' ... Lo Leshanos ve'Lo Leshalesh' (that she needs to see neither two times nor three).

(b)The problem with this statement is - that having said 'Leshanos', 'Leshalesh' is superfluous.

(c)We therefore interpret ...

1. ... Lo Leshanos to mean - not twice regarding Vestos, and ...

2. ... Lo Leshalesh - not three times regarding days.

(d)Shmuel saw fit to cite Rabban Gamliel b'Rebbi, to teach us that - even Rebbi's own son disagreed with him, and sided with the opinion of his (Rebbi's) father.

12)

(a)In connection with Vestos de'Gufah, what does our Mishnah say about a woman whose sightings tend to coincide with ...

1. ... the beginning of her Vestos?

2. ... the end of her Vestos?

(b)What does Rebbi Yossi say about days and hours?

(c)What does the Tana mean when, regarding a woman who tends to see during Hanetz ha'Chamah, he states that she is only Asur during Hanetz ha'Chamah? What is the name of the Tana?

(d)And what does Rebbi Yehudah mean to preclude, when he says 'Kol ha'Yom she'Lah'?

12)

(a)In connection with Vestos de'Gufah, our Mishnah rules that if a woman's sightings tend to coincide with ...

1. ... the beginning of her Vestos - all Taharos that she deals with during the course of her Veses are Tamei; whereas if they coincide with ...

2. ... the end of her Vestos - then they are Tahor.

(b)Rebbi Yossi says that days and hours - are also included in Vestos (as will be explained in the Sugya).

(c)When the Tana (Rebbi Yossi, who goes after hours) states that a woman who sees during Hanetz ha'Chamah is only Asur during Hanetz ha'Chamah, he means that - she is permitted to her husband up to Hanetz ha'Chamah, as well as the remainder of the day, should she not see blood during Hanetz ha'Chamah.

(d)And when Rebbi Yehudah says 'Kol ha'Yom she'Lah' - he means to concur with Rebbi Yossi regarding the period following Hanetz ha'Chamah, but to dispute his ruling with regard to the night before (where he rules that she is forbidden).

13)

(a)To explain Rebbi Yossi's statement 'Af Yamim ve'Sha'os Vestos', the Beraisa cites a case where a woman had a Veses in the sixth hour of every twentieth day. What does Rebbi Yossi say there, with regard to once that time arrives?

(b)What does Rebbi Yehudah hold?

(c)How do we reconcile ...

1. ... this with another Beraisa, where Rebbi Yehudah rules that she is permitted the entire night (with regard to where her Veses is due at the end of the night)?

2. ... the two rulings of Rebbi Yehudah, one forbidding her before her Veses, the other, after her Veses?

(d)Which principle governs Rebbi Yehudah's opinion?

13)

(a)To explain Rebbi Yossi's statement 'Af Yamim ve'Sha'os Vestos', the Beraisa cites a case where a woman had a Veses in the sixth hour of every twentieth day. Once that time arrives, Rebbi Yossi rules there that - she is permitted until the sixth hour, and again after the sixth hour (from midday, which is the time that one is permitted to Daven Minchah [see Tosfos DH 'min ha'Minchah']) in the event that she did not see blood.

(b)Rebbi Yehudah - forbids her from dawn-break until the end of the sixth hour, and should she not see during the sixth hour, he forbids her for the remainder of the day as well.

(c)We reconcile ...

1. ... this with another Beraisa, where Rebbi Yehudah rules that she is permitted the entire night (with regard to where her Veses is due at the end of the night - by establishing that Beraisa where she tended to see at the beginning of the morning (whereas our Mishnah is speaking where she tends to see at the end of the night, and the same goes for ...

2. ... his two rulings, one forbidding her before her Veses, the other, after her Veses (respectively).

(d)The principle governing Rebbi Yehudah's opinion is that - the woman is forbidden during the entire Onah of her Veses (comprising either the twelve-hour day period or the twelve-hour night period, depending on whichever one she tends to see).

14)

(a)Like which Tana does Rava rule?

(b)We query Rava from a Beraisa, which discusses the Pasuk in Metzora "ve'Hizartem es B'nei Yisrael mi'Tum'osam". What does Rebbi Yashiyah learn from there?

(c)How do we initially explain Rava's comment on this 've'Kamah, Onah' (that clashes with his previous ruling)?

(d)What problem do we have with establishing it by just one Onah?

(e)What do we answer to that? What would we have thought had he not issued ...

1. ... the latter ruling?

2. ... the former ruling?

14)

(a)Rava rules - like Rebbi Yehudah.

(b)We query Rava from a Beraisa however, which discusses the Pasuk in Metzora "ve'Hizartem es B'nei Yisrael mi'Tum'osam", from which Rebbi Yashiyah learns - the obligation to separate from one's wife close to her Veses.

(c)Initially, we explain Rava's comment on this 've'Kamah, Onah' to mean - an Onah in addition to that of the Veses (which clashes with his ruling like Rebbi Yehudah).

(d)The problem with establishing it by just one Onah is - why Rava then needs to issue two rulings to the same effect.

(e)And we answer that, had he not issued ...

1. ... the former ruling - we would have thought that it is only regarding Taharos that he rules like Rebbi Yehudah, but regarding permitting her to her husband, he will hold like Rebbi Yossi.

2. ... the former ruling - we would have thought that he requires two Onos, as we initially maintained.

15)

(a)Our Mishnah discusses a woman who changed her sighting from fifteen days to twenty. According to the Tana, how many times must a woman ...

1. ... see in order to fix a Veses?

2. ... stop seeing before being permitted to relinquish an old one?

15)

(a)Our Mishnah discusses a woman who changed her sighting from fifteen days to twenty. According to the Tana, a woman must ...

1. ... see three consecutive times (as we have already learned) in order to fix a Veses.

2. ... stop seeing - three consecutive times before being permitted to relinquish an old one.

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