BLOOD THAT LEAVES IN A TUBE
Rejection #1 (Abaye): No, all agree that if blood leaves in a tube, she is Tehorah;
They argue only when it left in a convoluted piece. R. Eliezer holds that it is normal for blood to leave this way, so it is considered Dam Nidah;
Chachamim hold that it is not normal for blood to leave this way, therefore it is not Dam Nidah.
Rejection #2 (Rava): No, all agree that it is not normal for blood to leave this way and that she is not Nidah. They argue about whether all blood from the Makor is Tamei:
R. Eliezer holds that all blood from the Makor is Tamei. (It is Metamei her and anything else it touches, like a Sheretz);
Chachamim hold that since the blood does not make her Nidah, it itself is Tahor.
SEMEN THAT LEAVES UNNATURALLY
Question (Rabah): If a thin chip of wood (Me'iri - tube) was inserted into the Ever and semen came out through it, what is the law?
Perhaps "Mimenu" teaches that he is Tamei only if it leaves due to him, but not due to something external;
Or, perhaps "Mimenu" teaches only that he is not Tamei until the semen leaves him, but it does not matter how it leaves.
Version #1 - Rashi - Answer (Rav Huna): He is not Tamei unless the semen fills the opening of the Ever. Here, it did not fill the opening (because the chip was there)!
Inference: Since there is a minimal quantity, this shows that he receives Tum'ah from the semen. He is not Tamei just because he expelled semen.
Version #2 - Tosfos - Answer (Rav Huna): He is not Tamei until the semen touches the opening of the Ever. (Until then, it is Tum'as Beis ha'Setarim);
Inference: This shows that he receives Tum'ah from the semen. He is not Tamei just because he expelled semen. (end of Version #2)
Question (Rabah): (A Zav must count seven (consecutive) days without Zivah before he can become Tahor.) If Keri (an emission of semen) is Metamei only because it touches him, it should not be Soser (invalidate the day from counting towards the seven, just like touching other Tum'os is not Soser)!
(Beraisa): "Zos Toras ha'Zav va'Asher Tetzei Mimenu Shichvas Zera" equates Zivah and Keri. Just like Zivah is Soser, also Keri.
Answer (Rav Huna): Keri is Soser because there are always drops of Zivah mixed in.
Question (Rabah): If so, it should disqualify the days counted (and require him to count seven days from the beginning), like Zivah does!
(Beraisa): "Zos Toras ha'Zav... " teaches that just like Zivah is Soser, also Keri.
Question: If so, it should disqualify the days counted, like Zivah!
Answer: "Letam'ah Vah" teaches that Keri is Soser only as much as it itself is Metamei, i.e. one day.
Answer (Rav Huna): The Torah decreed that pure Zivah disqualifies the days counted. Drops of Zivah mixed in with Keri are Soser only that day.
Question (R. Yosi b'Rebbi Chanina): If a clump of dry blood left her Ervah, what is the law?
"Ki Yazov Zov Damah" discusses a flow. Dry blood does not flow;
Or, perhaps the Torah merely gives the normal case, but she is Tamei even if it cannot flow?
Answer #1 (R. Elazar - Mishnah): Dam Nidah and flesh of a Mes are Teme'im wet or dry.
Rejection (R. Yosi b'Rebbi Chanina): That is when they were originally wet. I knew that;
I ask about when they were dry from the beginning.
Answer #2 (R. Elazar - Mishnah): If a woman miscarried a scab, hair, earth or red mosquitoes, she should put them in water. If they dissolve, she is Nidah. (Earth was dry from the beginning!)
Question: If so, she should be Nidah even if they do not dissolve!
Answer (Rabah): If they do not dissolve, this shows that they were not blood, rather, creations.
Question: Is it possible for a woman to miscarry such things?!
(Beraisa - R. Eliezer b'Rebbi Tzadok): On two occasions, my father went to (the Sanhedrin in exile in) Yavneh to get rulings. A certain woman used to miscarry red scabs. My father asked Chachamim, who asked doctors. They said that the scabs are from a wound inside;
Chachamim said that she should put them in water. If they dissolve, she is Nidah.
A certain woman used to miscarry red hairs. My father asked Chachamim, who asked doctors. They said that the hairs are from a wart inside;
(Reish Lakish): We put these things in warm water.
Support (Beraisa): She should put them in warm water;
R. Shimon ben Gamliel says, she should squash them in spit on her fingernail. (If they dissolve, she is Nidah.)
Question: What is the difference between them?
Answer (Ravina): If they dissolve only when pressed, R. Shimon is Metamei, and Chachamim are Metaher.
(Mishnah): (Sheratzim and Nevelos are Metamei if they are moist, but not if they are dry. If they can return to being moist through soaking them, they are considered moist.) They should be soaked in warm water for 24 hours.
Question: Must we soak also these miscarriages for 24 hours?
Sheratzim and Nevelos are hard, so they must be soaked for 24 hours, but miscarried blood (in the form of a scab or... ) is soft, so less time is needed;
Or, perhaps we do not distinguish.
This question is not resolved.
(Mishnah): If a woman miscarried something resembling fish... .
Question: R. Yehudah should argue also here! (He should say that she is a Nidah whether or not we saw blood come out with them.)
Version #1 - Answer #1 (Reish Lakish): Indeed, he argues also here.
Answer #2 (R. Yochanan): R. Yehudah agrees in this case;
R. Yehudah is Metamei only regarding a piece of flesh, for blood often hardens and forms a piece, but it would not form a (fish or other) creature.
Question: (This is like Version #1 above (21a). R. Yehudah and Chachamim argue about whether or not the piece is blood. However,) according to Version #2 (21b), R. Yochanan said that they argue about whether or not the womb can open without blood, and R. Yehudah should argue also here!
Answer: Version #2 above holds (like Version #2 below) that R. Yochanan indeed says so.
Version #2 - Answer (Reish Lakish and R. Yochanan): Indeed, he argues also here. (end of Version #2)
(Mishnah - R. Meir): If a woman miscarried something resembling a Behemah...
(Rav Yehudah): R. Meir learns a Gezeirah Shavah "Yetzirah-Yetzirah." (Yetzirah (forming) is written regarding the creation of man and of animals. Just like there is Tum'as Yoledes for giving birth to a person, also for giving birth to an animal.)
Question: If so, he should say that there is Tum'as Yoledes also for miscarrying a Tanin (a giant sea creature, or for any fish), for it says "va'Yivra Elokim Es ha'Taninim"!
Answer: We learn Yetzirah from Yetzirah through a Gezeirah Shavah, but not "Beri'ah" from Yetzirah.
Question #1: A Gezeirah Shavah may be learned even from a different word altogether!
(Beraisa - Tana d'Vei R. Yishmael): "V'Shav ha'Kohen... ; u'Va ha'Kohen" (a Gezeirah Shavah) equates the law (of a house with Tzara'as) when the Kohen (first) returns with when he comes (another week later).
Question #2: He should learn a Gezeirah Shavah "Beri'ah-Beri'ah". Regarding man, it says also "va'Yivra Elokim Es ha'Adam"!
Answer: "Va'Yivra" teaches about the creation. Yetzirah is extra, so we use it for the Gezeirah Shavah "Yetzirah-Yetzirah."
Question: Perhaps Yetzirah teaches about the creation, and va'Yivra is extra for the Gezeirah Shavah "Beri'ah-Beri'ah"!
Answer: We learn from "Yetzirah-Yetzirah," for these words are extra regarding man and animals;
We do not learn from "Beri'ah-Beri'ah," for even if it were extra regarding man, it is not extra regarding fish.
Question: Why is Yetzirah extra regarding animals?
Answer: It says "va'Ya'as Elokim Es Chayas ha'Aretz," and it also says "va'Yitzer Hash-m... Kol Chayas ha'Sadeh."
Objection: If so, Beri'ah should be extra regarding Taninim! It says "(va'Ya'as)... v'Es Kol Remes ha'Adamah," and it says also "va'Yivra Elokim Es ha'Taninim."
Answer: In that verse, "Remes" refers to things that swarm on land.