NIDAH 10 (10 Sivan) - dedicated by Mrs. Rita Grunberger of Queens, N.Y., in loving memory of her husband, Reb Yitzchok Yakov ben Eliyahu Grunberger. Irving Grunberger helped many people quietly in an unassuming manner and he is dearly missed by all who knew him. His Yahrzeit is 10 Sivan.

1)

WHEN BLOOD RETURNS AFTER THREE CLEAN PERIODS

(a)

Question: If three periods passed without blood and then she saw, and afterwards she saw after a standard period, what is the law? (Perhaps the three clean periods show that she became Mesulekes Damim (like R. Elazar, who says this even about young women), so she is Dayah Sha'atah until she sees three times. Or, since she later saw after one period, perhaps this indicates that she was never Mesulekes Damim, merely her Veses changed, so the 24 hours apply to her!)

(b)

Answer (Rav Gidal): The first two times she is Dayah Sha'atah. The third time the 24 hours apply to her.

(c)

(Beraisa): If a second set of three clean periods passed and then she saw, Dayah Sha'atah.

(d)

Question: If after this she saw after a standard period, what is the law? (The Tana taught that if she saw a third time after three periods passed, the 24 hours apply;

1.

Is this because now she is Muchzekes to see shortly after every third period, but if she saw after one period, we would say that she was Mesulekes Damim due to the second three clean periods, and Dayah Sha'atah? Only now that she had two sightings separated by only one period she is Muchzekes to see, so the 24 hours will apply to future sightings;

2.

Or, once she sees after the second set of three clean periods, she is again Muchzekes to see, so the 24 hours apply to her? The Tana taught a bigger Chidush, that a woman can be Muchzekes to see after long intervals. We do not say that three clean periods always establish her to be Mesulekes Damim.)

(e)

Answer (Rav Gidal): For this sighting she is Dayah Sha'atah. In the future, the 24 hours apply to her.

(f)

Question: The Reisha is like Rebbi, who says that two occurrences establish a Chazakah;

1.

The Seifa says that if three clean periods passed and then she saw, Dayah Sha'atah (even though she is not a Zekenah), like R. Eliezer!

2.

Suggestion: Perhaps Rebbi is the Tana, and he holds like R. Eliezer regarding three clean periods.

3.

Rejection: Rebbi once ruled like R. Eliezer, but then regretted this!

(g)

Answer: R. Eliezer is the Tana. He holds like Rebbi regarding Chazakah.

2)

A YOUNG BESULAH

(a)

If a Kesem was found between the first two sightings of a young Besulah (i.e. below the normal age of seeing blood), it is Tahor. (We do not attribute the blood to her);

(b)

(Chizkiyah): If it was found between the second and third sightings, it is Tamei. (She is retroactively Teme'ah);

1.

Since if she would see (a third sighting of blood) now, the 24 hours would apply, the same applies to her Kesem.

(c)

(R. Yochanan): A Kesem between the second and third sightings is Tahor;

1.

Since she was not yet Muchzekes (i.e. the 24 hours did not apply to her sightings until now), Chachamim did not decree Tum'ah for her Kesamim.

10b----------------------------------------10b

(d)

Question (against Chizkiyah - R. Ila'i): Why is this different than a newly married Besulah, whose blood is Tahor? (The first act of Bi'ah breaks the Besulim (a barrier in her body). For a certain time, we attribute all blood to the Besulim, and it is Tahor. If she already saw Dam Nidah beforehand, when she sees blood that looks different than her first Dam Besulim, it is Metamei her retroactively. Even so, we are Metaher her Kesamim. Likewise, we should be Metaher also Kesamim of Besulas Damim!)

(e)

Answer (R. Zeira): A newly married Besulah has (Tahor) Dam Besulim to which we can attribute the blood. This does not apply to a Besulas Damim.

(f)

(Ula citing R. Yochanan citing R. Shimon ben Yehotzadak): If a Besulah under 12 years saw one or two sightings of blood, her spit and Medras (Mishkav or Moshav that she stepped on) in the market are Tehorim;

1.

Also her Kesem is Tahor.

(g)

Ula: I do not know whether R. Yochanan said the law of her Kesem in his own name, or in the name of R. Shimon ben Yehotzadak.

(h)

Question: What difference does it make?

(i)

Answer: If he said it in the name of R. Shimon, then he and R. Shimon are a majority against Chizkiyah (who is Metamei), so we may assume that the Halachah follows them.

(j)

(Ravin, and all who came to Bavel from Eretz Yisrael): He said it in the name of R. Shimon.

(k)

(R. Chilkiyah bar Tuvi): Even if a young Besulah was spurting blood for seven days, this is considered like one sighting.

1.

Inference: 'Even if she spurted continuously' implies that all the more so, it is like one sighting if the blood stopped in the middle.

2.

Rejection: If it stopped in the middle, this is like two sightings!

(l)

Correction: Rather, if a young Besulah was spurting blood for seven days, this is considered like one sighting.

(m)

(R. Simi bar Chiya): If blood was dripping from a young Besulah, this is not considered like seeing blood.

(n)

Objection: Must the blood flow like a river to make her Teme'ah?!

(o)

Correction: Rather, if blood was dripping, this is considered only one sighting, as if she spurted continuously.

(p)

(Beraisa): A Bas Yisrael is Muchzekes to be Tehorah until she is a Na'arah. Women do not check her before this;

1.

After she becomes a Na'arah. She is Muchzekes to see blood regularly, so women check her.

2.

R. Yehudah says, they do not insert their fingers to check her, lest their nails scratch her (and cause bleeding, which would cause us to mistakenly declare her Teme'ah). Rather, they put oil inside and clean her outside. If there is blood, it will come out.

3)

R. YOSI'S OPINION

(a)

(Mishnah - R. Yosi): A pregnant or nursing woman...

(b)

(A reciter of Beraisos): R. Yosi says, a pregnant (woman) and a nursing woman is Dayah Sha'atah after not seeing blood for three periods.

(c)

Objection (R. Elazar): If R. Yosi discusses a pregnant woman and a nursing woman, he should say "they are Dayah Sha'atan"!

1.

Suggestion: Perhaps he discusses one woman who was pregnant and nursed. He teaches that the days of pregnancy (join to) complete (three clean periods that began in) the days of nursing, and vice-versa.

2.

(Beraisa): The days of pregnancy complete the days of nursing. The days of nursing complete the days of pregnancy:

i.

If she had two clean periods while pregnant and one clean period while nursing, or vice-versa, or one and a half of each, they join.

3.

Question: Granted, the days of pregnancy can complete the days of nursing. She was nursing, and became pregnant.

i.

However, how can the days of nursing complete the days of pregnancy? (Surely, she saw blood when she gave birth!)

4.

Answer #1: The case is, she gave birth without seeing blood.

5.

Answer #2: Dam Leidah (blood of childbirth) is not considered like Dam Nidah. (As long as she does not see Dam Nidah for three periods, she is Mesulekes Damim.)

6.

Answer #3: (Really, because she saw Dam Leidah in the middle, she is not Mesulekes Damim). The Beraisa should say only "days of pregnancy complete days of nursing."

4)

WHICH WOMEN RESUME RETROACTIVE TUM'AH

(a)

(Mishnah): She is Dayah Sha'atah the first time...

(b)

(Rav (and Reish Lakish)): This applies to all the women of the Mishnah.

(c)

(Shmuel (and R. Yochanan)): It applies only to Besulah and Zekenah, but a pregnant or nursing woman is Dayah Sha'atah as long as she is pregnant or nursing (even if she saw many times).

(d)

Tana'im argue like Rav and Shmuel;

1.

(Beraisa - R. Meir): If blood was flowing from a pregnant or nursing woman she is Dayah Sha'atah as long as she is pregnant or nursing;

2.

R. Yosi, R. Yehudah and R. Shimon say, she is Dayah Sha'atah the first time she sees. The 24 hours apply from her second sighting and onwards.