MENACHOS 49 (23 Nisan) - dedicated by Mr. Avy Reichman of Queens, NY, l'Iluy Nishmas his father, Dovid ben Avraham, for the day of his Yahrzeit.

1)

(a)Rabah bar bar Chanah cited a Beraisa Kivsei Atzeres she'Shachtu le'Shem Eilim, Kesheirim, ve'Lo Alu le'Ba'alim le'Shem Chovah. Which owner is the Tana referring to?

(b)What did Rav comment on the Beraisa, when he heard it from Rabah bar bar Chanah?

(c)How did Rav Chisda qualify Rav's ruling? What must the Kohen have had in mind for the Tzibur to be Yotzei?

(d)Why will Rav concede that if the Kohen also Shechted them as rams, the Tzibur is not Yotzei?

1)

(a)Rabah bar bar Chanah cited a Beraisa Kivsei Atzeres she'Shachtu le'Shem Eilim, Kesheirim, ve'Lo Alu le'Ba'alim le'Shem Chovah. The owner referred to by the Tana is - the Tzibur (K'lal Yisrael).

(b)When Rav heard the Beraisa from Rabah bar bar Chanah, he commented - Alu ve'Alu (K'lal Yisrael have definitely fulfilled their obligation).

(c)Rav Chisda qualified Rav's ruling - by confining it to where the Kohen had in mind that he was Shechting rams, only he Shechted them as if they were lambs ...

(d)... but if the Kohen also Shechted them as rams, Rav will concede that the Tzibur is not Yotzei - because it is Akirah be'Ta'us (an erroneous transfer from Kevasim to Eilim), and he holds Akirah be'Ta'us Havya Akirah.

2)

(a)Rabah disagrees with Rav Chisda. What does he say?

(b)Rava queried Rabah from a Beraisa, which declares Chayav, Kohanim who are Mefagel (render Pigul) a Korban intentionally. What is the case? What does the Chiyuv entail?

(c)What can we extrapolate from the Beraisa regarding Shogeg?

(d)What does the Tana add to the original ruling regarding the Pigul taking effect?

(e)What is now Rava's Kashya on Rabah?

2)

(a)Rabah disagrees with Rav Chisda. He holds - Akirah be'Ta'us Lo Havya Akirah and the Tzibur will be Yotzei even if he thought they were Eilim and he Shechted them as Eilim.

(b)Rava queries Rabah from a Beraisa, which declares Chayav, Kohanim who are Mefagel (render Pigul) a Korban intentionally - which refers to where they Shecht a Chatas as a Shelamim, with the intention of eating it Chutz li'Zemano (in two days instead of the prescribed one), for which they are now obligated to pay the owner.

(c)We can extrapolate from the Beraisa that if they do the same thing be'Shogeg - they will be Patur.

(d)The Tana adds to the original ruling - that the Pigul nevertheless takes effect.

(e)Rava's Kashya on Rabah is - from this latter statement, since (we initially assume that) the Tana can only be speaking where the Kohanim took it to be a Shelamim and Shechted it as a Shelamim (a classical case of Akirah be'Ta'us).

3)

(a)On what grounds do we dismiss the suggestion that the Tana (in the inference) is speaking in a case where the Kohen knows that it is a Chatas, but performs the Avodah le'Shem Shelamim?

(b)How does Abaye nevertheless accept the previous suggestion? Why is it not so impossible after all?

3)

(a)We dismiss the suggestion that the Tana (in the inference) is speaking in a case where the Kohen knows that it is a Chatas, but performs the Avodah le'Shem Shelamim - because then he would not be a Shogeg.

(b)Abaye nevertheless accepts the suggestion - by establishing the case where the Kohen thinks that it is permitted (Omer Mutar).

4)

(a)What does Rebbi Shimon in a Beraisa say about all Menachos whose Kemitzah is taken she'Lo li'Sheman, such as Machavas le'Shem Marcheshes or Chareivah le'Shem Belulah?

(b)What is the difference between a Minchas Marcheshes and a Minchas Machavas?

(c)What does Chareivah refer to?

(d)In what way are Zevachim different?

4)

(a)Rebbi Shimon in a Beraisa rules that all Menachos whose Kemitzah is taken she'Lo li'Sheman, such as Machavas le'Shem Marcheshes or Chareivah le'Shem Belulah - are Kasher, because everyone can see which Minchah it really is.

(b)A Minchas Marcheshes - is cooked in a pot and is spongy in substance, whereas a Minchas Machavas is baked in a panand is crispy.

(c)Chareivah refers to - a Minchas Chotei (which contains no oil).

(d)Zevachim are different - inasmuch as all Korbanos look the same when they are Shechted, sprinkled or burned.

5)

(a)What makes Rebbi Zeira think that the Beraisa cannot be speaking where the Kohen knows that it is a Machavas and performs the Avodah le'Shem Marcheshes?

(b)So how is the Beraisa in fact, speaking?

(c)What does Rebbi Zeira therefore extrapolate from the Beraisa? How does this pose a Kashya on Rabah?

(d)Abaye establishes the Beraisa where the Kohen knows that it is a Machavas and performs the Avodah le'Shem Marcheshes, because Rava (who asks the original Kashya on Rabah) follows his own reasoning. What did Rava say to explain Rebbi Shimon in the Beraisa?

5)

(a)Rebbi Zeira thinks that the current Beraisa cannot be speaking where the Kohen knows that it is a Machavas and performs the Avodah le'Shem Marcheshes - because then he will have made an Akirah (and what difference does it make whether the difference is clear or not?).

(b)The Beraisa must therefore be speaking - where the Kohen takes it to be a Minchas Marcheshes and he performs the Kemitzah in that capacity (another classical case of Akirah be'Ta'us)...

(c)... and Rebbi Zeira extrapolates from the Beraisa that - in this case only, do we not consider Akirah be'Ta'us to be an Akirah (for the reason mentioned there), but elsewhere, we do (a Kashya on Rabah).

(d)Abaye establishes the Beraisa where the Kohen knows that it is a Machavas and performs the Avodah le'Shem Marcheshes, because Rava (who asks the original Kashya on Rabah) follows his own reasoning. To explain Rebbi Shimon in the Beraisa, Rava said - Machshavah de'Lo Mink'ra Pasal Rachmana ... (in other words, the Torah ignores a Machshavah which contradicts what is clearly visible to be otherwise, even if it is be'Meizid).

6)

(a)What does our Mishnah say about the Musafin ...

1. ... and the Temidin being Me'akev each other?

2. ... being Me'akev each other?

(b)According to the Tana Kama, the Kohanim must bring the Tamid shel bein ha'Arbayim, even if they did not bring the Tamid shel Shachar, and the same applies to the Ketores, if they did not bring it (the half-Manah) in the morning. What does Rebbi Shimon say with regard to ...

1. ... the Tamid shel bein ha'Arbayim?

2. ... the Ketores shel bein ha'Arbayim?

(c)According to our Mishnah, with what does one inaugurate ...

1. ... the Mizbe'ach ha'Zahav?

2. ... the Mizbe'ach ha'Olah?

3. ... the Shulchan?

4. ... the Menorah?

6)

(a)Our Mishnah rules that the Musafin ...

1. ... and the T'midin - are not Me'akev each other ...

2. ... are not Me'akev each other.

(b)According to the Tana Kama, the Kohanim must bring the Tamid shel bein ha'Arbayim, even if they did not bring the Tamid shel Shachar, and the same applies to the Ketores, if they did not bring it (the half-Manah) in the morning. According to Rebbi Shimon however, they ...

1. ... only bring the Tamid shel bein ha'Arbayim - if they were Anusin, but not if they were Mezidin.

2. ... bring the Ketores shel Shachar together with that of bein ha'Arbayim.

(c)According to our Mishnah, one inaugurates ...

1. ... the Mizbe'ach ha'Zahav - with the Ketores (shel bein ha'Arbayim [according to one text]).

2. ... the Mizbe'ach ha'Olah - with the Tamid shel Shachar.

3. ... the Shulchan - with the Lechem ha'Panim on Shabbos.

4. ... the Menorah - with the kindling of the seven lamps in the afternoon.

7)

(a)Rebbi Chiya bar Avin asked Rav Chisda, assuming not sufficient animals are available, which has priority, the Temidin or the Musafin. Why can this not refer to the Temidin and the Musafin of that day?

(b)Certainly, we ask, the Tamid takes precedence, since it is both Tadir and Mekudash. Mekudash might refer to the fact that it is sanctified by the Kedushah of the day (even though the Musaf is too). What else can it mean?

(c)So what is the case? What are the two sides of the She'eilah?

7)

(a)Rebbi Chiya bar Avin asked Rav Chisda, assuming not sufficient animals are available, which has priority, the Temidin or the Musafin. This cannot refer to the Temidin and the Musafin of that day, because that would be a case of Tadir u'Mekudash.

(b)Certainly, we ask, the Tamid takes precedence, since it is both Tadir and Mekudash. Mekudash might refer to the fact that it is sanctified by the Kedushah of the day (even though the Musaf is too). Alternatively, it means that - the Temidin which have already been sanctified take precedence over the Musafin because they are brought first.

(c)The case therefore, is - where it is a question of whether to bring the Temidin tomorrow (Tadir) or the Musafin today (Mekudash).

8)

(a)Rav Chisda replied by citing our Mishnah ha'Temidin Ein Me'akvin es ha'Musafin ve'ha'Musafin Ein Me'akvin es ha'Musafin. The Tana cannot be speaking where both are available on that day, and it is a matter of which comes first, due to a D'rashah of Rava. What did Rava learn from the Pasuk in Tzav "Hi *ha'Olah*"? What does it prove?

(b)Neither can the Tana be speaking about when there are only sufficient animals for one or the other on that day, as we explained a little earlier. So he must be speaking where they have tomorrow's Temidin and today's Musafin. What does Rav Chisda prove from there?

(c)Abaye refutes the proof however, by establishing the case where the Temidin and the Musafin of that day are both available, like we suggested at first. How does he reconcile this with "ha'Olah", 'Olah Rishonah'.

8)

(a)Rav Chisda replied by citing our Mishnah ha'Temidin Ein Me'akvin es ha'Musafin ve'ha'Musafin Ein Me'akvin es ha'Musafin. The Tana cannot be speaking where both are available, and it is a matter of which comes first, due to a D'rashah of Rava - who learned from the Pasuk "Hi *ha'Olah*", 'Olah Rishonah' (that no Korban may precede the Tamid shel Shachar), in which case there can be no question of the Musaf preceding the Tamid.

(b)Neither can the Tana be speaking about where there are only sufficient animals for one or the other on that day, as we explained a little earlier. So he must be speaking where they have tomorrow's Temidin and today's Musafin, and Rav Chisda proves from there - that the two are equal, and that neither takes precedence over the other.

(c)Abaye refutes the proof by establishing the case where the Temidin and the Musafin of that day are both available, like we suggested at first, and the D'rashah "ha'Olah", 'Olah Rishonah' - only applies Lechatchilah, but not Bedi'eved.

49b-------------------49b

9)

(a)We query Rav Chisda again from another Beraisa. What is the minimum number of Tela'im Mevukarin that the Tana requires in the Lishkas ha'Tela'im, when Rosh Hashanah falls on Thursday and Friday? What are Tela'im ha'Mevukarin?

(b)How many lambs are needed for the Musafin of two days Rosh Hashanah followed by Shabbos?

(c)So how do we establish the Beraisa?

(d)What does this prove?

(e)Why might we otherwise have thought that one brings four of the lambs for the Temidin and the Musaf of Shabbos?

9)

(a)We query Rav Chisda again from another Beraisa, which requires - at least six Tela'im Mevukarin (lambs examined for blemishes) in the Lishkas ha'Tela'im when Rosh Hashanah falls on Thursday and Friday.

(b)For the Musafin of two days Rosh Hashanah followed by Shabbos - sixteen lambs (two for Shabbos, and seven for each day Rosh Hashanah are needed.

(c)So we establish the Beraisa where there are only six lambs for the Temidin, two for each day ...

(d)... a proof that - the Temidin of the three days take precedence over the Musafin of the Shabbos.

(e)We might otherwise have thought that one brings four of the lambs for the Temidin and the Musaf of Shabbos - since Shabbos is more Kadosh than Yom-Tov.

10)

(a)We refute this proof too however, by establishing the author of the Beraisa as ben Bag-Bag. What does ben Bag-Bag learn from the Gezeirah-Shavah "Tishm'ru" (in Pinchas, in connection with the Korban Tamid) from "le'Mishmeres" (in Bo, in connection with the Korban Pesach "Vehayah lachem le'Mishmeres ad Arba'ah-Asar Yom")?

(b)How do we now establish the Beraisa itself? What is the Tana coming to teach us?

(c)Why does the Beraisa no longer have any bearing on the She'eilah? Why could it now be speaking even when there are sufficient lambs for the Temidin as well as for the Musafin?

10)

(a)We refute this proof too however by establishing the author of the Beraisa as ben Bag-Bag, who learns from the Gezeirah-Shavah "Tishm'ru" (in Pinchas, in connection with the Korban Tamid) from "le'Mishmeres" (in Bo, in connection with the Korban Pesach "Vehayah lachem le'Mishmeres ad Arba'ah-Asar Yom") that - the Korban Tamid, like the Korban Pesach, requires inspection four days before it is brought.

(b)And we establish the Beraisa itself - with regard to the lambs for the Korban Tamid four days before they are actually brought.

(c)The Beraisa no longer has any bearing on the She'eilah (in fact, it might even be speaking where there are sufficient lambs for the Temidin as well as for the Musafin) - because it is only the Tamid that is compared to the Pesach in this regard, but not the Musafin.

11)

(a)Ravina asked Rav Ashi why the Beraisa requires only six lambs and not seven, one for Sunday morning. Why only seven? Why not the lambs for Sunday afternoon, Monday and Tuesday?

(b)Rav Ashi asked Ravina why he did not refer to an eighth lamb, namely that of Friday afternoon. What is the significance of Friday afternoon here?

(c)How do we refute Rav Ashi's (counter) Kashya?

11)

(a)Ravina asked Rav Ashi why the Beraisa requires only six lambs and not seven, one for Sunday morning; only seven - because as far as the lambs for Sunday afternoon, Monday and Tuesday are concerned - the Kohen will have Sunday morning to search for animals that have been examined four days earlier, (though it would be impractical to do so on Motza'ei Shabbos for Sunday morning).

(b)Rav Ashi asked Ravina why he did not refer to an eighth lamb, namely that of Friday afternoon - in a case where Shabbos preceded Rosh Hashanah, and the Kohanim were still left with the Tamid of Bein ha'Arbayim of Erev Shabbos to bring (plus the six for Shabbos and Rosh Hashanah) as well as the seventh, which will now be the one of Tuesday morning (instead of the Sunday morning, to which we referred earlier (though it is unclear why the Sugya changes the case in the middle for no apparent reason [see Eizehu Mekoman]).

(c)We refute Rav Ashi's (counter) Kashya however - by establishing the Beraisa where they had already brought the Tamid shel Bein ha'Arbayim.

12)

(a)The Kashya from seven lambs however, remains, causing us to retract from the original text. How do we therefore re-interpret the Beraisa? How does this differ from the previous explanation?

(b)What is then the significance of the two days of Rosh Hashanah and Shabbos?

(c)How do we prove this explanation from the Lashon of the Beraisa itself (Ein Pochsin ... Kedei le'Shabbos ve'li'Shenei Yamim-Tovim shel Rosh Hashanah)?

12)

(a)The Kashya from seven lambs however, remains, causing us to retract from the original text. So we re-interpret the Beraisa to mean (not the six inspected lambs that one requires for the two days of Rosh Hashanah and Shabbos, but) - the six inspected lambs that are required every day.

(b)And the significance of the two days of Rosh Hashanah and Shabbos is - merely as a Si'man by which to remember the number six.

(c)We prove this explanation from the Lashon of the Beraisa itself (Ein Pochsin ... K'dei le'Shabbos ve'li'Shenei Yamim-Tovim shel Rosh Hashanah) - since the word K'dei implies the Shi'ur of the three days, but not the three days themselves (in which case the Tana would have said le'Shabbos u'Shenei Yamiim-Tovim).

13)

(a)Practically speaking then, assuming the Beis Hamikdash will be inaugurated on a Wednesday, when will they begin inspecting the first two lambs (for the Korban Tamid) for blemishes?

(b)Come Wednesday morning, there will be eight lambs in the Lishkas ha'Tela'im. What happens then on that day?

(c)Why did the Chachamim fix specifically six Tela'im?

13)

(a)Practically speaking then, assuming the Beis Hamikdash will be inaugurated on a Wednesday, they will begin inspecting the first two lambs (for the Korban Tamid) for blemishes - on Shabbos (four days before, excluding the actual day of Shechitah).

(b)Come Wednesday morning, there will be eight lambs in the Lishkas ha'Tela'im. On that same morning - they will take two lambs for the Korban Tamid shel Shachar, which they will immediately replace, a procedure which they repeat in the afternoon, for the Tamid shel bein ha'Arbayim.

(c)The Chachamim fixed specifically six Tela'im - to give the Kohanim a clear leeway of three days to search for lambs should any difficulty arise in obtaining them.

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