1)

A FINE AFTER DEATH

(a)

Question: She cannot become pregnant (and give birth before becoming a Bogeres)!

1.

(Rav Bivi - Beraisa): Three women use a wad to prevent pregnancy: a minor, a pregnant woman, and a nursing woman. (Rashi - they may use a contraceptive wad at the time of Bi'ah. Tosfos - this is forbidden! Rather, they must use a wad after Bi'ah to remove the semen.)

i.

A minor does so, lest she get pregnant and die;

ii.

A pregnant woman does so lest the fetus get mashed (Rashi - if a second fetus is conceived; Tosfos - this is impossible. Rather, we are concerned lest there are already two fetuses inside, and semen will enter between them);

iii.

A nursing woman does so lest pregnancy force her to wean her baby, and it will die.

2.

R. Meir says, a girl between 11 and 12 years uses a tuft. If she is younger or older, she has Bi'ah normally.

3.

Chachamim say, at any age she has normal Bi'ah. Shamayim will have mercy on her - "Hash-m guards the simple."

(b)

Suggestion: Perhaps she became pregnant and gave birth while she was a Na'arah.

(c)

Rejection: She cannot give birth in six months!

1.

(Shmuel): Only six months separate a Na'arah from a Bogeres.

2.

Suggestion: Perhaps the interim is never less than six, but sometimes it is more.

3.

Rejection: Shmuel said 'only'!

(d)

Retraction: Rather, Rava asked about a girl who died without children.

1.

If she becomes a Bogeres after death, the father loses the fine;

2.

If she doesn't become a Bogeres, her father receives the fine.

(e)

Question (Mar bar Rav Ashi): Is death considered like becoming a Bogeres (i.e. does it make her leave her father's jurisdiction)?

1.

The question is unresolved.

(f)

Question (Rava): If he raped or seduced her and then she became Mekudeshes, what is the law?

(g)

Answer (Abaye): It does not say 'the father of the Na'arah who (even now) is not Mekudeshes'! (Certainly, the father still collects the fine.)

(h)

Question (Rava - Beraisa): If he had Bi'ah with her and then she had Nisu'in, she receives the fine.

1.

Question: Why is this? It does not say 'the father of the Na'arah who is not Nesu'ah'!

(i)

Answer: This is no comparison. Nisu'in removes her from her father's jurisdiction, just like becoming a Bogeres;

1.

If she was raped or seduced and then became a Bogeres, she receives the fine. The same applies to if she had Nisu'in;

2.

Kidushin does not take her from the jurisdiction of the father!

i.

(Mishnah): The father and husband of a Na'arah Me'orasah (Arusah) jointly annul her vows.

2)

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN A RAPIST AND A SEDUCER

(a)

(Mishnah): A seducer pays three payments: embarrassment, blemish and a fine. A rapist pays these and also for pain;

(b)

A rapist pays a fine immediately. A seducer pays when he divorces her;

(c)

A rapist must keep her for a wife. A seducer may divorce her;

(d)

When is a rapist forced to marry her? This is even if she is lame, blind or leprous;

(e)

If he found immorality in her, or if she may not marry a Yisrael, he may not stay married to her. "She will be his wife" - she must be fitting for him.

(f)

(Gemara) Question: For which pain does he pay?

(g)

Answer #1 (Shmuel's father): He threw her to the ground.

(h)

Question (R. Zeira): According to this, if he threw her onto silk he is exempt?!

1.

Suggestion: Perhaps this is true!

2.

Rejection (Beraisa - R. Shimon ben Yehudah) A rapist does not pay for pain, because she was destined to suffer the pain in any case, when she marries. (Her husband will not throw her on the ground! Rather, he refers to pain of the first Bi'ah.)

39b----------------------------------------39b

3.

Chachamim: The pain of one who is forced is greater than that of one who willingly has Bi'ah.

(i)

Answer #2 (Rav Nachman): He pained her by opening her legs.

1.

Question: If so, a seducer should also pay!

2.

Answer #1 (Rav Nachman): (She consented.) This is like one who says 'tear my silk and be exempt.'

3.

Objection: Why is this like 'tear my silk'? The payment belongs to her father!

4.

Answer #2 (Rav Nachman): Rather, wise women say that a seduced woman suffers no pain.

5.

Question: We see that they (women who willingly have first Bi'ah with their husbands) do!

6.

Answer (Abaye): My (surrogate) mother told me that it is a trifling pain, like hot water on a bald head.

7.

Rava: My wife told me that it is like a bloodletter's incision.

8.

Rav Papa: My wife told me that it is like hard bread scratching the palate.

3)

WHEN THE FINE IS PAID

(a)

(Mishnah): A rapist pays immediately. A seducer pays when he divorces her.

(b)

Question: Why does it say 'when he divorces her'? He did not marry her yet!

(c)

Answer (Abaye): It means 'when he does not marry her.'

(d)

Support (Beraisa): Even though we learned that a seducer pays (the fine) when he does not marry her, he pays for embarrassment and blemish immediately;

1.

Regarding both a rapist and a seducer, she or her father can block the marriage.

(e)

Question: Regarding a seducer it says "Im Ma'en Tima'en Aviha." The repetition teaches that also she may refuse;

1.

What is the source regarding a rapist?

(f)

Answer - part 1: "To him she will be a wife" connotes willingly. This teaches that she may refuse;

(g)

Question: How do we know that her father may refuse?

(h)

Answer #1 (Abaye): (This is logical. It is) in order that a sinner should not profit (to be able to marry a girl against her father's will).

(i)

Answer #2 (Rava): We learn from a Kal v'Chomer.

1.

A seducer violated only the father's will, yet the father may refuse. A rapist violated also her will, all the more so the father may refuse!

(j)

Rava did not learn like Abaye. Since he pays a fine, it is not considered profiting if he gets to marry her;

1.

Abaye did not learn like Rava. Since a seducer can refuse to marry her, also the father may protest. A rapist cannot refuse to marry her, so the same could apply to the father!

(k)

(Beraisa): Even though a rapist pays a fine immediately, when he divorces her she has no claim against him.

(l)

Interjection: He is not allowed to divorce her!

(m)

Correction: Rather, when she decides to leave him she has no claim against him.

(n)

(Continuation of Beraisa): If he dies, the fine he had paid is in place of a Kesuvah;

(o)

R. Yosi bar Yehudah says, she has a Kesuvah of 100;

1.

The first Tana holds that we enacted Kesuvah so that it will not be light in a man's eyes to divorce his wife. A rapist cannot divorce her, so we did not enact a Kesuvah for her.

2.

R. Yosi bar Yehudah is concerned lest he pain her until she will want to leave him.

(p)

(Mishnah): The rapist must marry her.

(q)

Question (Rava of Parzika): We learn from a rapist to a seducer and vice-versa. Why don't we learn that this applies also to a seducer?

(r)

Answer (Rav Ashi): Regarding a seducer it says "Yimhareno Lo (he will take her for a wife to him)" - if he wants.

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