KERISUS 14 (4 Elul) - Dedicated l'Iluy Nishmas Chaim Yisachar (ben Yaakov) Smulewitz of Cleveland on his Yahrzeit, by his son in law, Dr. Eli Turkel of Raanana, Israel.

1)

(a)Bearing in mind that the first Isur to take effect in our Mishnah is that of Cheilev, which principle do we initially ascribe to Rebbi Meir (the only name explicitly mentioned there)?

(b)If that is so, he cannot be the author of the Beraisa cited in Chulin. What does the Tana there say about a case where someone ate the Neveilah of a non-Kasher animal?

(c)Why is that?

(d)How do we refute this proof? Why might Rebbi Meir be the author of the Beraisa after all?

(e)What is the definition of ...

1. ... Isur Mosif?

2. ... Isur Kolel?

1)

(a)Bearing in mind that the first Isur to take effect in our Mishnah is that of Cheilev, we initially ascribe to Rebbi Meir (the only name explicitly mentioned there) - the principle of Isur Chal al Isur.

(b)If that is so, he cannot be the author of the Beraisa cited in Chulin, where someone ate the Neveilah of a non-Kasher animal - and where the Tana exempts him from Malkos for eating Neveilah ...

(c)... because he holds Ein Isur Chal al Isur.

(d)We refute this proof however, bearing in mind that - the cases in our Mishnah are either Isur Kolel or Isur Mosif, which Rebbi Meir will hold, take effect, even if S'tam Isur does not. Consequently, Rebbi Meir may well be the author of the above Beraisa after all.

(e)The definition of ...

1. ... Isur Mosif - where another Isur is added to the forbidden object.

2. ... Isur Kolel - where permitted objects are incorporated in the Isur.

2)

(a)What makes ...

1. ... Tum'ah an Isur Kolel?

2. ... Hekdesh an Isur Mosif?

3. ... Nosar an Isur Mosif?

(b)We ask why the Tana does not insert Pigul, to make it five Chata'os. What do we answer?

(c)Why can Pigul and Nosar not pertain to the same animal?

(d)We query this however, from a statement of Ula. What did Ula say about a limb of Pigul that is placed on the Mizbe'ach?

2)

(a)What makes ...

1. ... Tum'ah an Isur Kolel is the fact that - it incorporates the rest of the animal (in addition to Cheilev) in the Isur.

2. ... Hekdesh an Isur Mosif is the fact that - the Cheilev now becomes Asur be'Hana'ah, as well.

3. ... Nosar an Isur Mosif is the fact that - it now becomes Asur to Hash-m, too.

(b)In answer to why the Tana does not insert Pigul, to make it five Chata'os, we answer that - the Tana lists only those Isurim which pertain to the same animal, and Nosar and Pigul cannot pertain to the same animal ...

(c)... because Pigul takes place by one of the four Avodos pertaining to the blood, rendering the animal unfit to be eaten, in which case it is no longer subject to Nosar.

(d)We query this however, from a statement of Ula, who said that - once a limb of Pigul is placed on the Mizbe'ach, the Isur of Pigul falls away. Consequently, that piece could become Nosar (even though the rest of the animal is Pigul).

3)

(a)On what grounds do we try to reject the answer that the Tana only speaks about four Chata'os on the same limb, but not on two different ones? How do we think it is possible for Pigul and Nosar to pertain to the same limb?

(b)What objection do we raise to that suggestion?

(c)We override this objection on the basis that it would resolve the She'eilah of Rami bar Chama. Which She'eilah did Rami bar Chama pose?

(d)What objection do we then raise to the suggestion that the Tana is speaking about Isurim that pertain to the same k'Zayis? Which case in our Mishnah belies this suggestion?

3)

(a)We try to reject the answer that the Tana only speaks about four Chata'os on the same limb, but not on two different ones - by establishing the case where half the Pigul limb was placed on the Ma'arachah and half off it was not, in which case the former could become Nosar, whilst the latter would remain Pigul.

(b)We object to this suggestion however, by pointing out that - in such a case we would go after the majority of the limb, so that the entire limb would either be one or the other, but not both.

(c)And we override this objection because it would resolve the She'eilah of Rami bar Chama, - who asked whether we go after the majority of the limb in such a case or not (and Amora'im do not ask She'eilos that the Tana'im have already dealt with).

(d)We also object to the suggestion that the Tana is speaking about Isurim that pertain to the same k'Zayis but not to a second k'Zayis - from the insertion of Yom Kipur in our Mishnah, whose Isur comprises a Koseves (a dry date, the Shi'ur for which one is Chayav on Yom Kipur) which is equivalent to two k'Zeisim.

4)

(a)So we establish the case where the sinner ate a Kulya (a kidney, comprising a k'Zayis) together with its Cheilev (comprising a second k'Zayis). What is then the significance of ...

1. ... the Cheilev?

2. ... the Kulya?

(b)How does this explain the Tana's omission of Pigul?

(c)Why can we not establish the case where the Kulya was placed on the Mizbe'ach, in order to add Pigul to the list?

(d)Rav Papa answers that he filled it with dates. What does he mean? What did he fill with dates?

4)

(a)So we establish the case where the sinner ate a Kulya (a kidney, comprising a k'Zayis) together with its Cheilev (comprising a second k'Zayis). The ...

1. ... Cheilev - constitutes the three Chata'os (other than Yom Kipur) and the Asham.

2. ... Kulya - constitutes the extra k'Zayis, making up the Shi'ur Koseves of Yom Kipur.

(b)This explains the Tana's omission of Pigul - because it would then require a second k'Zayis of Cheilev, and the Tana is speaking about one k'Zayis of Cheilev, and not two.

(c)Nor can we establish the case where the Kulya was placed on the Mizbe'ach in order to add Pigul to the list - because 'Tamei she'Achal Cheilev ... ' implies that all the Isurim are contained in the Cheilev (and not in the Kulya, which only comes to complement the Shi'ur Koseves, as we explained).

(d)Rav Papa answers that he filled it with dates - meaning that (to avoid having to add the Kulya), he establishes the Mishnah where the sinner complemented the Shi'ur Koseves of Yom Kipur, by filling the Cheilev with a second k'Zayis of dates.

5)

(a)According to Rav Ada bar Ahavah, our Mishnah does indeed list five Chata'os. Which is the fifth one?

(b)How does he reconcile Pigul and Nosar being transgressed simultaneously?

(c)What will he say about the answers that the other Amora'im gave to all the above questions?

(d)In that case, why does the Tana not add blood to the list, bringing it up to six Chata'os?

5)

(a)According to Rav Ada bar Ahavah, our Mishnah does indeed list five Chata'os - by adding Pigul to the four Isurim.

(b)And he reconciles Pigul and Nosar being transgressed simultaneously - by establishing that the Pigul came from a different animal.

(c)He ignores the answers that the other Amora'im gave - because he does not consider the questions relevant.

(d)And the reason that the Tana does not add blood to the list (bringing it up to six Chata'os) is - because having learned that the throat cannot hold more than two k'Zeisim, it would have had to be eaten separately, and the Tana is speaking about how many Chata'os one is obligated to bring for one eating, not two.

6)

(a)What problem do we have with the Lashon of the Mishnah 'Im Hayah Shabbos ve'Hotzi'o Chayav'?

(b)What does Rafram try to extrapolate from it?

(c)How do we refute Rafram's inference, justifying the Tana's Lashon, even assuming that the Tana holds Yesh Eiruv ve'Hotza'ah le'Yom ha'Kipurim?

6)

(a)The problem with the Lashon of the Mishnah 'Im Hayah Shabbos ve'Hotzi'o Chayav' is that - Rebbi Meir did not need to mention Shabbos at all. He could have simply said 'Im Hotzi'o, Chayav' (seeing as the case is speaking about Yom-Kipur) ...

(b)... leading Rafram to extrapolate that - there is no prohibition against carrying on Yom Kipur (Ein Eiruv ve'Hotza'ah be'Yom ha'Kipurim).

(c)We refute Rafram's inference, justifying the Tana's Lashon however, (even assuming that the Tana holds Yesh Eiruv ve'Hotza'ah le'Yom ha'Kipurim) - by explaining that he is actually coming to add an additional Chatas for carrying on Shabbos, besides the one for Yom Kipur.

7)

(a)So we connect Rafram with the Beraisa which discusses the Pasuk in Acharei-Mos (in connection with the Sa'ir la'Azazel) "ve'Shilach be'Yad Iti ... ". What does the Tana learn from ...

1. ... "Ish"?

2. ... "Iti" (besides that his appointment must be prearranged)?

(b)What does Rafram now extrapolate from the D'rashah on "Iti"?

(c)We conclude however, that Rafram's statement is a joke. Why is that?

7)

(a)So we connect Rafram with the Beraisa which discusses the Pasuk in Acharei-Mos (in connection with the Sa'ir la'Azazel) "ve'Shilach be'Yad Iti ... ". The Tana learns from ...

1. ... "Ish" - to include a Zar.

2. ... "Iti" (besides that his appointment must be prearranged) - "Iti", 'even be'Tum'ah', "Iti", 'even on Shabbos'.

(b)Rafram now extrapolates from the previous D'rashah - "Iti", 'even on Shabbos', that Ein Eiruv ve'Hotza'ah le'Yom ha'Kipurim.

(c)We conclude however, that Rafram's statement is a joke - because the reason for the D'rashah pertaining to Shabbos and not to Yom Kipur is because as far as Yom Kipur is concerned, it is the Mitzvah of the day (which is in any case permitted, like the Korban Tamid on Shabbos and Yom Kipur).

8)

(a)Our Mishnah presents a case of someone who is Chayav six Chata'os for one Bi'ah. Besides Bito, Achoso and Nidah, what are the other three?

(b)What problem do we have with our Mishnah? Why ought the sinner not to be Chayav all these Chata'os?

(c)And we answer that most of the Isurim are Isur Mosif. On what grounds do both Bito and Achoso (which is how the case begins) take effect?

(d)On what grounds ...

1. ... do Eishes Achiv, Eishes Achi Aviv and Eishes Ish then take effect after that? What makes them an Isur Mosif?

2. ... Nidah take effect last?

8)

(a)Our Mishnah presents a case of someone who is Chayav six Chata'os for one Bi'ah; Bito, Achoso, Eishes Achiv, Eishes Achi Aviv, Eishes Ish and Nidah.

(b)The problem with our Mishnah is that - based on the principle Ein Isur Chal al Isur, the sinner ought not to be Chayav more than one Chatas

(c)And we answer that most of the Isurim are Isur Mosif. Bito and Achoso, however (which is how the case begins) both take effect - because they occur simultaneously (when the sinner was intimate with his mother, who bore him a daughter (who was also his sister).

(d)

1. Eishes Achiv, Eishes Achi Aviv and Eishes Ish take effect after that - because they become Asur to the other brothers, uncles (or their children on account of Eishes Av) and all other men, respectively.

2. Nidah takes effect last - because she also becomes forbidden to her husband.

14b----------------------------------------14b

9)

(a)Our Mishnah presents a case where a man is Chayav seven Chata'os for having relations with his daughter's daughter, who is also his daughter-in-law (since his son married her). How is it possible for her to also be ...

1. ... his wife's sister?

2. ... his brother's wife and the wife of his paternal uncle?

(b)What are the last two Isurin for which he brings two additional Chata'os?

(c)What does Rebbi Yossi say about where the sinner's father then transgressed and married her (after his brother died)?

(d)What does the Tana conclude regarding someone who has relations with his wife's daughter or with her daughter's daughter?

9)

(a)Our Mishnah presents a case where a man is Chayav seven Chata'os for having relations with his daughter's daughter, who is also his daughter-in-law (since his son married her). And she is also...

1. ... his wife's sister - because he married his son-in-law's daughter, who was born to him from another wife (making him the father of both his wife and his granddaughter).

2. ... his brother's wife and the wife of his paternal uncle - because his brother married her after his son (her first husband) died, and his paternal uncle married her after his brother died.

(b)The last two Isurin for which he brings two additional Chata'os are - Eishes Ish and Nidah.

(c)In a case where the sinner's father then transgressed and married her (after his brother died), Rebbi Yossi rules that - he (the sinner) is also Chayav because of Eishes Av.

(d)And the Tana concludes that - someone who has relations with his wife's daughter or with her daughter's daughter (instead of with his own daughter) - under the same circumstances is Chayav the same seven Chata'os.

10)

(a)What problem do we have with Rebbi Yossi's ruling, adding Eishes Av to the list, there where his father married his granddaughter after his uncle died?

(b)How does Rebbi Yochanan solve the problem? How is it possible for a father to marry a woman after his brother has been married to her?

(c)And how does Rebbi Ya'akov then explain Rebbi Yossi's use of the term 'transgressed'? What does the Beraisa say about Kalas B'no?

(d)Which other Sheniyah might Rebbi Ya'akov have mentioned instead of Kalas B'no?

(e)Why is she not forbidden to the father anyway, because she is his daughter-in-law (since one of the Isurim listed is that of Eishes Achiv)?

10)

(a)The problem with Rebbi Yossi's adding Eishes Av to the list, (there where his father married his granddaughter after his uncle died) is - how such a marriage can be valid (seeing as she is Eishes Achiv).

(b)Rebbi Yochanan solves the problem - by establishing the case where his brother died without children, leaving him with the Mitzvah of Yibum.

(c)Rebbi Ya'akov explains Rebbi Yossi's use of the term 'transgressed' - by referring to the Isur of Kalas B'no (seeing as the Mishnah included Kalaso (the daughter-in-law of his son) among the list of Chata'os, and a Beraisa lists Kalas B'no among the Sheniyos (Arayos de'Rabbanan).

(d)Instead of Kalas B'no, Rebbi Ya'akov might have mentioned - Bas Bas B'no' which is a Sheniyah, too).

(e)She is not necessarily forbidden to the father anyway (even though she is listed as being his son's brother's wife) - because the Tana is speaking about the wife of the sinner's maternal brother (who is only his father's stepson, and who is therefore permitted to him).

11)

(a)We query Rebbi Yossi in our Mishnah from his opinion in a Mishnah in Yevamos, where the Tana Kama sentences someone who performs a double-barreled sin which carries the death penalty, to the more stringent death. What does Rebbi Yossi say there?

(b)To illustrate this, we cite a Beraisa where Rebbi Yossi elaborates. What does he rule in a case where a man has relations with ...

1. ... his mother-in-law who later got married?

2. ... a married woman who then became his mother-in-law?

(c)What does the Tana Kama rule there? Why is that?

11)

(a)We query Rebbi Yossi in our Mishnah from his opinion in a Mishnah in Yevamos, where the Tana Kama sentences someone who performs a double-barreled sin whiczh carries the death penalty, to the more stringent death. According to Rebbi Yossi - he receives the death-penalty of the sin which took effect first.

(b)To illustrate this, we cite a Beraisa where Rebbi Yossi rules that where a man has relations with ...

1. ... his mother-in-law who later got married - he receives Sereifah (because of Chamoso).

2. ... a married woman who later become his mother-in-law - he receives Chenek.

(c)According to the Tana Kama there - either way, he receives Sereifah (which is more stringent than Chenek) because he holds - Isur Chal al Isur.

12)

(a)How does Rebbi Avahu reconcile Rebbi Yossi in our Mishnah (who seems to holds Isur Chal al Isur) with Rebbi Yossi in the Mishnah in Yevamos?

(b)If Rebbi Yossi holds of Isur Mosif, then why does he give Chamoso precedence over Eishes Ish just because it took effect first? Why does Eishes Ish, which is an Isur Mosif, not take effect as well?

12)

(a)Rebbi Avahu reconciles Rebbi Yossi in our Mishnah (who seems to hold Isur Chal Al Isur) with Rebbi Yossi in the Mishnah in Yevamos - by establishing our Mishnah by Isur Mosif (and he also holds of Isur Kollel and Isur Bas Achas [see Tosfos DH 'Modeh Rebbi Yossi']), which Eishes Ish she'Na'aseh Chamoso is not

(b)Nevertheless, he gives Chamoso precedence over Eishes Ish, because it came into effect first (despite the fact that Eishes Ish is an Isur Mosif, as it incorporates the rest of the world) - because Chamoso is more stringent, as we explained (in which case, even though the Isur Eishes Ish is an Isur Mosif, he will still receive the stricter punishment, like anyone who is Chayav two Misos).

13)

(a)Our Mishnah now presents another case where someone who is intimate with his mother-in-law, is Chayav seven Chata'os (namely, Chamoso, Kalaso, Eishes Achiv, Eishes Achi Aviv, Achos Ishto, Eishes Ish and Nidah (see Tiferes Yisrael). Which two similar cases does the Tana add?

(b)Rebbi Yochanan ben Nuri cites a case of someone who has relations with his mother-in-law, who is also Chayav because of Eim Chamoso and Eim Chamiv. How is this possible (see Tif'eres Yisrael)?

(c)On what grounds do the Chachamim disagree with him?

13)

(a)Our Mishnah now presents another case where someone who is intimate with his mother-in-law, is Chayav seven Chata'os; Chamoso, Kalaso, Eishes Achiv, Eishes Achi Aviv, Achos Ishto, Eishes Ish and Nidah (see Tiferes Yisrael). The Tana adds that - the same will apply in a case where he is intimate with the mother of his father-in-law or of his mother-in law under the same circumstances.

(b)Rebbi Yochanan ben Nuri cites a case of someone who has relations with his mother-in-law, who is also Chayav because of Eim Chamoso and Eim Chamiv - where Chavah had two daughters and one son, and Ya'akov marries one of her daughters (making her his mother-in-law), her other daughter's daughter (making her Eim Chamoso) and her son's daughter (making her Eim Chamiv).

(c)The Chachamim disagree with him, because - since all three Isurim stem from the same Pasuk (see Acharei-Mos 18:17), the sinner is only Chayav one Chatas.

14)

(a)Rebbi Elazar Amar Rebbi Hoshaya equates Rebbi Yochanan ben Nuri (in our Mishnah) with Sumchus in the Mishnah in Chulin (which discusses the Isur of Oso ve'es B'no). What will be the Din if one Shechts Oso ve'es bas B'nah?

(b)The Tana Kama there rules that someone who does so, and who then goes on to Shecht its daughter, 'Sofeg es ha'Arbayim'. What does Sumchus say?

(c)What is Rebbi Elazar now saying?

(d)Rava and Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak both object to this comparison. On what grounds does ...

1. ... Rava claim that Rebbi Yochanan ben Nuri would agree with the Tana Kama of Oso ve'es B'no that he would only receive one set of Malkos there?

2. ... Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak agree with the Tana Kama of our Mishnah that one would only bring one Chatas in the case of Chamoso?

(e)This last statement is based on a statement of Rebbi Avahu. What does Rebbi Avahu Amar Rebbi Yochanan learn from the words "Zimah Hi" (in the Pasuk in Acharei-Mos "Sha'arah Heinah Zimah hi")?

14)

(a)Rebbi Elazar Amar Rebbi Hoshaya equates Rebbi Yochanan ben Nuri (in our Mishnah) with Sumchus in the Mishnah in Chulin (which discusses the Isur of 'Oso ve'es B'no'). If someone Shechts Oso ve'es bas B'nah - he will be Patur from Malkos (since that is not what the Torah prohibits.

(b)The Tana Kama there rules that someone who does so, and who then goes on to Shecht its daughter, 'Sofeg es ha'Arbayim'. According to Sumchus - he receives two sets of Malkos (one for 'Oso ve'es B'no', and one for 'B'no ve'Oso'.

(c)Rebbi Elazar is now saying that - both Tana'im apply as many punishments as there are Isurim, even though they all stem from the same Pasuk (in the form of one La'av).

(d)Rava and Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak both object to this comparison. In fact ...

1. ... Rava claims, Rebbi Yochanan ben Nuri will agree with the Tana Kama of 'Oso ve'es B'no' (that he only receives one set of Malkos there) - because strictly speaking, both Isurim share exactly the title 'Oso ve'es B'no' (whose order will make no difference according to him), whereas in our Mishnah, one is called 'Chamoso', one, 'Eim Chamoso', and one 'Eim Eim Chamoso'.

2. ... Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak maintains that Sumchus will agree with the Tana Kama of our Mishnah that one only brings one Chatas in the case of Chamoso - because, unlike his case, which refers to two different bodies ('Oso ve'es B'no' and 'B'no ve'Oso'), the entire Isur takes place on one woman.

(e)This last statement is based on a statement of Rebbi Avahu Amar Rebbi Yochanan, who learns from the words "Zimah Hi" (in the Pasuk in Acharei-Mos "Sha'arah Heinah Zimah hi")- that 'Ishah u'Bitah u'Bas Bitah' (which is equivalent to Chamoso, Ein Chamaso and Eim Eim Chamoso) are all considered one act of adultery.

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