Question: If Nesachim are brought by themselves (i.e. on a later day than the Korban they are for), do they require Shirah?

R. Shmuel bar Nachmani taught that Shirah is said only over wine. Therefore, we should sing;

Or, perhaps we sing only for "eating" (Haktarah) and "drinking" (Nesachim) together!

Answer (Beraisa - R. Yosi): Hash-m causes good things to happen on meritorious days...

Question: For which Korban was the Shirah?

It cannot be for Olas Chovah. they ceased to offer the Tamid three weeks earlier!

Answer #1: Rather, it was for Olas Nedavah.

Rejection: Rav Mari brei d'Rav Kahana taught that we do not sing for Olas Nedavah!

Answer #2: Rather, it was for Nesachim (of a Korban brought at least three weeks ago)!

Rejection (Rava): We cannot say that it was for Nesachim. The Shir for (anything offered on) Yom Rishon is "la'Shem ha'Aretz u'Melo'ah," but they said "va'Yashev Aleihem... ," from the Shir for Yom Revi'i!

They said it as a Kinah (not as Shir Shel Yom).

Question: The Beraisa says that they were standing on the Duchan (i.e. they were supposed to sing)!

Answer: It is like Reish Lakish, who says that they may sing without a Korban.

Question: If so, they may sing for Nesachim!

Answer: No, for this can lead to disaster.

(Beraisa - R. Yosi): Hash-m causes good things to happen on meritorious days... The first Mikdash was destroyed... in the year after Shemitah...

Question: It was not Motza'ei Shemitah!

Question: "B'Esrim v'Chamesh Shanah l'Galuseinu b'Rosh Hashanah be'Asor la'Chodesh b'Arba Esreh Shanah Achar Asher Huksah ha'Ir" - when is Rosh Hashanah on the 10th of the month?

Answer: This refers to Yovel. (Yom Kipur is like the beginning of the Yovel year. It is when land reverts to sellers and Ivri slaves go free. This the 25th year from Galuseinu (when Yechezkel was exiled with 1000 Chachamim, 11 years before the Churban), 14 years after the Churban.)

Summation of question (b): (Yovel is always in Motza'ei Shemitah.) If the Churban was in Motza'ei Shemitah, also the eighth and 15th years from the Churban were Motza'ei Shemitah. We proved from the verse that the 14th year was Yovel!)

Answer (Ravina): It was in the 14th year after (excluding the year of) the Churban.

Question: If it was 15 years from (including the year of) the Churban, it was 26 years from Galuseinu (the first exile. The verse says that it was the 25th year!)

Yisraelim were exiled in the seventh, eighth, 18th year and 19th years. The Churban was in the 18th year, 11 years after Galuseinu!

Counter-question (Ravina): (Surely the final Galus, in year 19, was at the time of the Churban.) If you say that the verse means 14 years from (including) the Churban, this is 26 years after Galuseinu, which was 12 years before the Churban!

Answer to both questions: You must say that the verse refers to the 25th year after (excluding the year of) Galuseinu. I similarly say that the count excludes the year of the Churban!

Question: How does Ravina explain? (If the Churban was 12 years after Galuseinu, Yovel was the 27th year from Galuseinu, but the verse says 25!)

Answer: You assume that the exiles of years 18 and 19 are different. Really, they are one. It was 18 years from the conquest of Yehoyakim, and 19 years from the start of Nebuchadnetzar's reign. (Similarly, Galuseinu was seven and eight years after these two times.)

(Beraisa): Nebuchadnetzar conquered Ninveh in the first year of his reign. He conquered Yehoyakim in his second year.

(Beraisa): The same applies to the second Churban.

Question: The second Churban was not in Motza'ei Shemitah!

Bayis Sheni stood 420 years before the Churban (which was in year 421). Eight Yovel cycles span 400 years (each is 50 years), leaving 20 years, i.e. two complete Shemitah cycles and six years (so the Churban was not in Motza'ei Shemitah)!

Answer #1: The Beraisa is R. Yehudah, who says that year 50 (Yovel) also counts as the first year of the next Yovel cycle (so each cycle is 49 years);

If we make the above calculation according to R. Yehudah, we are left with eight more years (since each Yovel cycle has one year less). Bayis Sheni stood 28 years (four complete Shemitos) into the ninth Yovel. The Churban was the next year, i.e. Motza'ei Shemitah.

Question: It cannot be R. Yehudah. According to him, the first Churban was not in Motza'ei Shemitah!

(Beraisa): Bnei Yisrael counted 17 Yovel cycles from entering Eretz Yisrael until the first Churban. (Bayis Rishon was built 440 years after entering, and it stood 410 years.)

We cannot say that they began counting Yovel immediately upon entering, for then the Churban would have been in the first year of Yovel (after 850 years, 17 full cycles). Rather, it was 14 years before this - "b'Rosh Hashanah be'Asor la'Chodesh b'Arba Esreh Shanah Achar Asher Huksah ha'Ir"!

Rather, we must say that they did not start counting for 14 years, i.e. after seven years of conquest and seven of dividing Eretz Yisrael among the Shevatim.

This is unlike R. Yehudah. He holds that a Yovel cycle has 49 years. Seventeen extra years would remain, and the Churban would have been three years after Yovel!

Answer: We did not count Yovel from the time that Sancheriv exiled the 10 tribes (for then Yovel did not apply), until Yirmeyahu returned them. (A new cycle began then, 36 years before the Churban.)

Answer #2 (to Question (i)): Really, the Beraisa is Chachamim. "The same applies to the second Churban" refers to other matters. (It was on Tish'ah b'Av on Motza'ei Shabbos, but it was not in Motza'ei Shemitah.)

Support: Surely, not everything mentioned applied also to the second Churban. The Mishmar Yehoyariv was not in Bayis Sheni!

(Beraisa): Four (of the 24) Mishmaros returned from Bavel -- Yedayah, Charim, Pashchor and Eimar. Nevi'im divided them into 24. Each of the four Mishmaros would also serve in place of five missing Mishmaros. A lottery was used to decide in which order they would serve.

Nevi'im enacted that even if Yehoyariv (formerly the first Mishmar) would later return, they would be secondary to Yedayah. (Rashi - Yehoyariv never returned. Tosfos - even if it returned, it was not called by its name, so we would not say that Churban Sheni was during its week.)

"The same applies to the second Churban" refers to other matters.