More Discussions for this daf
1. Examen avec un "Eid Badouk" - Fin du daf 14a 2. asham talui 3. Bedikah cloth for husband
4. Rashi DH d'Lo Metartin

Shimon HALIMI asked (in French):

Dans Rachi "et le lendemain elle trouve sur elle (sur la cuisse) du sang..." ( ? propos de l'examen avec un "Eid Badouk":

Question: Pourquoi ne craint-on pas que la sang vienne d'ailleurs alors que dans la Rachi suivant, "Eid cheeino dans le cas o? elle l'aurait frott? sur sa cuisse" , on craint que le sang vienne d'ailleurs (+ la crainte qu'il y avait d?j? du sang sur le Eid) et il y aurait eu "safek sfeka" ?


In Rashi "and the next day she finds on her (on the thigh) blood..." (regarding the examination with an "Eid Badouk"). Question: Why is there no concern that the blood comes from outside while in the following Rashi, "Eid she'eino badouk... in the case where she would have rubbed it on his thigh", there is a concern that the blood comes from outside (the fear that there already was blood on the Eid) and thus there should be a "safek sfeka"? ]

Shimon HALIMI, France

The Kollel replies:

The second Rashi is discussed at length in the Poskim. The Sidrei Taharah (190:64) writes that actually the Safek that the Dam came from somewhere else and not from the Ed is not enough of a Safek to be Metaher her, since a woman is Muchzekes to see Dam from the Mekor. However, it is enough to add on to other Sfeikos, such as an Ed she'Eino Baduk. As such, he learns that it is not actually a Sfek Sfeika, but rather two reasons to be in doubt.

D. Zupnik


Le Poskim discute longuement le deuxi?me Rashi. Le Sidrei Taharah (190:64) ?crit que le doute si le sang est venu d'ailleurs, et pas du Ed, n'est pas assez d'un doute pour faire son Tahor, parce qu'une femme a un Chazakah pour voir le sang du Mekor. Cependant, il sera oblig? ? ajouter assez aux autres doutes, tels qu'un Ed Baduk. Donc, il apprend que ce n'est pas en fait un Sfek Sfeika, mais plut?t deux raisons pour ?tre en doute. ]

I. Beilin commented:

Also, the sefek sefekah is on the thigh not on the cloth.

Even on ed haboduk the cheshash mealmoh is there. We require a gris and make differences between ogul and moshuch. Most poskim say that if there was a round less than gris and blood on the thigh she can be toleh.

The gemoroh has a similar discussion "tachas hakar vehakeses". Later on. rashi holds that a mashehu assures on the skin so he needs that the sheeloh be on teh thigh where it could not come from her. etc.

Let me try the answer one more time. We are talking about the thigh being in the place where blood cannot drop from her. Hence, the sefek sefekoh by ed sheno boduk can be made if it is found on the thigh. Maybe, it came from elsewhere and maybe even if it came from teh cloth the blood on the cloth is not from her. To be matir the cloth with a sefek sefekah is a machalokes the Ramoh and Shach. The shach is right it it called shem ones chad hu.

On the ed haboduk there is only one sofek. Let us assume like tosfot we are talking on the ed itself. Then, if round and less than a gris we have a sofek hashokul and teh chezkas taharoh prevails. There is more on this, but, this is the basic point. And, even machmirim by ed haboduk would be mekil if it was put underneath the kar and keses. Here, we do not have to worry about blood on the guf being assur bemashehu.