More Discussions for this daf
1. Times for the Bazichin and Tamid on Shabbos Erev Pesach 2. Halachic Time for the Afternoon Tamid 3. Korban Pesach Spoiling
4. Time of Musaf 5. First Mishna of Perek 6. סוגריים מרובעות ברש״י סוף העמוד
7. במכמר בשרא קמיפלגי
DAF DISCUSSIONS - PESACHIM 58

Yisroel Alter Pacanowski asks:

The Gemora says the time to bring the Korban Musaf is at midday. Rashi says since by Musaf it says 'Yom'and not 'Boker'. Therefore R' Yishmoel holds Musaf was brought at midday, followed by Bozichin and Korbon Tomid could only be brought at 1:30PM. According to this, how can we daven Musaf in Shule before midday?

Yisroel Alter Pacanowski, Australia

The Kollel replies:

1) The Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim 286:1 writes that the time for Musaf is immediately after Shacharis. The Levushei Srad, printed on the page of the Shulchan Aruch there, asks from our sugya, where one learns that Musaf should be later because "Yom" suggests ?????, and therefore one waits lecatchilah for Musaf until the 6th hour?!

2) Levushei Srad answers that our sugya only refers to Mitzvah Min Hamuvchar; the choicest way of doing the Mitzvah. He writes that this is also apparent from the words of Rashi here ??? ???????? ??÷???? ÷??? ??; it is not the normal way to bring the Musaf before the 6th hour. Levushei Srad writes that this suggests merely that it is not the rotuine practice to bring them before the 6th hour; which implies that this is not the usual way of doing it; but if one does so before the 6th hour, this does not carry any prohibition with it.

[ It should be pointed out that Levushei Srad cites Rashi in a slightly different way than we have it. Our text states ???? ?????? ???????? ???; the normal time of Musaf is at 6; whilst Levushei Srad understands that it is not common practice to bring them before 6].

3) The Mishneh Berurah, in Biur Halacha at the beginning of chapter 286, cites the Levushei Srad and writes that it would seem that according to him it is better lecatchilah to daven Musaf later. The Mishneh Berurah writes that in his opinion this is not the correct practice. Certainly if one said Shacharis with the community one should not break away from them and say Musaf later on one's own. Even if one davened Shacharis on one's own it is not advisable to wait such a long time until midday before saying Musaf because this would mean one misses the Mitzvah of Oneg Shabbos, since one is not allowed to fast until midday on Shabbos.

KOL TUV

Dovid Bloom

Follow-up reply:

1) I found, bs'd, another source which strenghtens your question, Reb Yisroel Alter. This is from Chochmas Shlomo, by Rav Shlomo Kluger zt'l, printed on the page of Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim #592 (the discussion there is why we blow the Shofar in Musaf on Rosh Hashana). Chochmas Shlomo writes that Rashi learns from the verse ??? ??? ????? that since the word Yom is repeated, this teaches that lecatchilah Musaf should be offered late. So the question remains why do we say Musaf before midday?

2) I wish to point out that at first sight it would appear that there is a dispute between the Levushei Srad and the Biur Halacha that I cited above. The Levushei Srad holds that lecatchilah, according to the Din of the Gemara, it is better to daven Musaf later (and we have now seen that Chochmos Shlomo also agrees with this) whilst the Biur Halacha holds that there is no advantage in having Musaf later. However it seems to me that when one thinks more about this, one sees that there is actually no basic dispute involved here. Firstly, one has to understand how is it that the Shulchan Aruch writes that the time of Musaf is immediately after Shacharis? The Levushei Srad writes that the Shulchan Aruch does not fit in with the choice way of doing the Mitzvah according to the Gemara, but he does not seem bothered by this discrepancy. It seems to me that the Levushei Srad and the Mishneh Berurah both go on the same lines; that according to the Gemara the Musaf sacrifice should be late, but when it comes to Tefilah it is not usually practical to daven Musaf so late. Therefore one relies on the fact that one certainly is yotzei if one davens Musaf earlier. The Levushei Srad does not elaborate on the reasons why a late Musaf is not practical, whilst the Biur Halacha gives 3 reasons for this (a) one should not break away from the community (b) it would be too much of a burden on the community to tell them all to go away and come back later for Musaf (c) if one waits too late for Musaf one will go hungry.

3) On the other hand, we notice that the Biur Halacha does not make any mention of our Gemara. This is because he agrees to the Levushei Srad and the Chochmos Shlomo that the ideal time for Musaf according to the Gemara is later on but in practice one cannot usually do this and since the time for the korban given by the Gemara is only Mitzvah min Hamuvchar, we say this does not apply for times of davening Musaf.

Behatzlochah Rabah

Dovid Bloom