More Discussions for this daf
1. Nidmeh and Nishtanah 2. Two Events Occurring Simultaneously 3. Efshar l'Tzamtzem

hg asks:

How does Nidme relate to Nishtana?

Is this the same Nishtana as in Kashrus of food during processing like kitniyus chometz etc?

Would people use only "plain" wine for Kiddush?

Fanyc wines always have a taste from barrel or from field they are in... None for Nesachim?

hg, Monroe CT

The Kollel replies:

1) The Din that Nesachim must not be Nishtanu has a Halachic ramification today also. This would concern whether it is acceptable to make Kidush on such wine, whether such wine may be used on Seder night, and whether such wine becomes forbidden if an idolater touches it.

2) The Shulchan Aruch (Orach Chayim 272:8) cites two opinions about whether cooked wine is acceptable for Kidush on Shabbos. The Rema writes that the custom is to use it for Kidush if it is tastier than other available wine. The eshuvas ha'Rivash #10 writes that cooking does change wine; it is indeed Nishtanah, but it has actually changed for the better.

3) However, concerning the idolater who touched the wine, the status of the wine depends on whether the wine is acceptable for Nesachim on the Mizbe'ach. The Gemara's Derashah here in Bechoros (17a) of "Zevach u'Nesachim" teaches that just as the Zevach has not changed, so we require that the Nesachim have not changed. Since cooking changes the wine, even though it is a change for the better, it is nevertheless no longer like the Zevach. Since it is Pasul for Nesachim, it follows that it does not become forbidden if an idolater touches it.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom