Dear Kollel Iyun HaDaf
Regarding the principle of R' Yose B'Rebbe Chaninah: Kol Mitzvah ShNemrah L'vnei Noach V'Nishnis B'Sinai - LaZeh ULaZeh Nemrah:
The Gemara asks about Milah and Pru U'Revu (and concludes only Gid HaNesheh and Mila for B'nei Keturah applies - Rambam Poskins that way)
Why doesn't the Gemara entertain Kiddush HaChodesh (Shemos 12:1) as a possible Hava Aminah. Korban Pesach and related laws, Mitzvos in Shemos Chapter 13, and the Mitzvos at Mara, were either repeated after Sinai or were Hora'as Sha'ah, but HaChodesh HaZeh Lachem was a Mitzvah L'Doros that was not repeated at or after Sinai, similar to Gid HaNashe while the people were B'nei Noach? Bnei Noach should also be bound to keep Nissan as Rosh Chodashim and to abide by the Jewish lunar/solar calendar?
I am presuming that the status of 'Ben Noach' changed to 'Yisroel' for the Jews at Mamaad Har Sinai. To suggest that the Jews in Egypt had a status of 'Yisroel' at HaChodesh HaZeh Lachem would be a chiddush, you would have to pinpoint exactly when that happened, and what event caused it to happen, how and why. Certainly Gid HaNashe was at the time of Yaakov and his sons, which characterizes them as B'nei Noach according to this Gemara. What changed from then until HaChodesh Hazeh Lachem.
(On the other hand, there may be something to it, as the first Rashi on the Torah specifically calls HaChodesh Hazeh Lachem as the first Mitzvah that was commanded to 'Yisroel'. Furthermore, the term 'Adat Yisroel' (national identity) appears for the first time in the Torah at Shemos 12:3 and 'Kehal Adat Yisroel' at Shemos 12:6, whereas until then they were always referred to as Bnei Yisroel (tribal family) except for when Paroh refers to them as just 'Yisroel' (Shemos 5:2) and where they are referred to as 'Yisroel' to contrast them with 'Mitzrayim' Shemos 11:7, but never are the whole people referred to as 'Adat Yisroel' until Shemos 12:3)
If you could shed some light on this with an approach that addresses all of these issues please let me know
All the best,
Betzalel
This is a very interesting question. I have not seen anyone who discusses it, so I will try to answer from "Sevara."
1. I agree with you that "Bnei Noach" changed to Yisrael at Har Sinai, and, in fact, Rashi (59a, DH v'Ein) writes explicitly that the Bnei Yakov were Bnei Noach before Matan Torah, which teaches that the Jews only became a People upon receiving the Torah.
2. However, it appears to me that there is a special reason for why one could never have thought that Kidush ha'Chodesh is a Mitzvah for Bnei Noach. This is because the Mitzvah is one which specifically applies to Klal Yisrael as a nation. We learn this from the words of Sefer ha'Chinuch (Mitzvah 4) who writes that the Mitzvah is to sanctify the months in a Beis Din in Eretz Yisrael containing great scholars, and to establish the festivals according to this Kidush. The Chinuch writes that the foundation of the Mitzvah is so that Yisrael should observe the Mo'adim of Hash-m at the correct time. At the end of Mitzvah 4, the Sefer ha'Chinuch concludes that this Mitzvah applies whenever there are sages who have received Semichah. If one is a sage of the necessary calibre to perform Kidush ha'Kodesh and nevertheless refrains from doing so, he thereby transgresses the positive Mitzvah of Kidush ha'Kodesh.
3. We see from this that the Mitzvah of Kidush ha'Chodesh is not merely to keep Nisan as "Rosh Chodashim" and observe the Jewish solar/lunar calendar as you write, but rather it is a Mitzvah incumbent upon the Sanhedrin to pronounce the New Moon. In addition, since it only applies in Eretz Yisrael, we can now understand why it is not possible to entertain a Havah Amina that Bnei Noach could be considered as obligated in this Mitzvah.
Kol Tuv,
Dovid Bloom
One of the Rabanim answered this question by saying that the Parshah of "ha'Chodesh ha'Zeh Lachem" (Shemos 12:1) was not said to Moshe Rabeinu as a command. Therefore, even though this Parshah was given before Matan Torah, it is not considered as having been given to Bnei Noach because they were not actually commanded on this at that time, only later on.
I found a possible support for this idea in the Mechilta to Shemos 12:1 that says that Moshe Rabeinu showed to the Bnei Yisrael the correct shape of the moon for which is suitable to announce the new month and said, "For such a shape of moon you should see and fix for the generations." This appears to imply that the Mitzvah of deciding the new months applied only in later generations but did not practically apply before Matan Torah. Rather, Hashem was telling Moshe how the Mitzvah would be performed afterwards.
Kol Tuv,
Dovid Bloom
I wrote earlier that the Mitzvah of Kidush ha'Chodesh given to Moshe Rabeinu in Parshas Bo was not stated as a commandment, and therefore even though Bnei Yisrael before Matan Torah were considered Bnei Noach, nevertheless the Mitzvah of Kidush ha'Chodesh is not a Mitzvah that was given to Bnei Noach. Here are some proofs for the above assertion:
1. The Mitzvah of Kidush ha'Chodesh can be performed only in Eretz Yisrael. This is stated by the Rambam at the end of chapter 5 of Hilchos Kidush Hachodesh.
2. See the Mefaresh on the above Rambam who cites the Rambam in Sefer ha'Mmitzvos (Mitzvos Aseh #153) who expands on this point in detail. He writes that the fact that we say nowadays in Chutz la'Aretz that such and such a day is Rosh Chodesh is only because the Beis Din ha'Gadol in Eretz Yisrael already fixed the calendar.
3. See Teshuvos Chasam Sofer (Orach Chaim #103) who writes that for this reason we are obligated to support the Jewish settlement in Eretz Yisrael -- because if there are no Jews in Eretz Yisrael, the Jewish calendar all over the world has no validity.
4. It follows that this applies only after Bnei Yisrael had entered Eretz Yisrael and set up a Beis Din there, but in the time of Moshe Rabeinu there were no Jews in Eretz Yisrael and therefore it was not possible to command in an obligatory way about Kidush ha'Chodesh.
5. This means that the Mitzvah of Kidush ha'Chodesh given in chapter 12 of Sefer Shemos was a Mitzvah that would apply only later and is similar to the Mitzvah of separating Terumos and Ma'aseros, for instance, which applied only later on when they entered Eretz Yisrael.
Kol Tuv,
Dovid Bloom
Wasn't this one of the differences of opinion between Yosef and his brothers? Yosef considered himself and the brothers as b'nei Noach and thefore the requirement for eating meat was not s'echita but ayver min hachy.The brothers considered themselves as b'nei Yisroel and therefore as long as there was sechita-even though the animal was still thrashing about -they felt it was OK to eat.
This was one of the things that Yosef "masered" the brothers to Yakov
1. Here is a way of understanding the dispute between Yosef and his brothers, which is consistent with Rashi in Sanhedrin (59a, DH v'Aliba), who writes that before the giving of the Torah everyone had the status of of Bnei Noach.
2. This is based on the Mizrachi on Rashi to Bereshis 37:2, who explains that the brothers used to cut off meat from the neck of the animal, where it was slaughtered. Then they would salt it well, rinse it well, wait until the animal died, and then eat it. The Gemara in Chulin (33a) tells us that this is healthy. Yosef thought that since it was cut off from the animal before it died, it was considered Ever Min ha'Chai. However, this is not the Halachah, because of the rule that "there is nothing that is permitted to Yisrael that is forbidden to Bnei Noach." Therefore, since this would become permitted after we would receive the Torah, it follows that it was also permitted before Matan Torah.
3. When we say that Yosef's brothers considered themselves as Bnei Yisrael, this means that they kept the Torah but does not mean that they believed they had received the Torah. This is stated by Rashi in Chulin (91a, DH u'Pora), who writes that "the sons of Yakov observed the Mitzvos. Even though the Torah had not yet been given, they had accepted it upon themselves from their Forefathers."
Kol Tuv,
Dovid Bloom
Why then is Yaakov's marrying sisters not a problem?
Naftoli
1. The Ramban answers that the Avos kept the entire Torah only after they entered Eretz Yisrael, not in Chutz la'Aretz (because they did not want to be Machmir on themselves in Chutz la'Aretz before they were actually obligated to keep the Torah).
2. Rav Chaim of Volozhin, in Nefesh ha'Chayim, explains that the way the Avos kept the Torah before it was given is diiferent from the way we have to keep it now that it has already been commanded to us. Since Yakov saw that to give birth to his 12 Shevatim he would have to marry 2 sisters, therefore he was able to do this. He knew that these marriages were the best for his spiritual perfection and for the building of Klal Yisrael and that his descendants had to come from the union with Rachel and Leah. So before the Torah was given, since its observation was still optional, if one knew that the best thing would be obtained by not observing a law in the Torah, one was allowed to do so. After the Torah was given, it is different. Even if someone believes that his best spiritual advancement would be promoted by going against the Torah, he is not allowed to do so because Hashem has already commanded that one must live only according to the Torah. This is why Hashem said to Chizkiyahu ha'Melech (who did not want to get married because he foresaw that he would give birth to Menasheh who would worship Avodah Zarah) that he must not look at these hidden aspects; since the Torah has commanded us to be fruitful and multiply, we must do this Mitzvah and not worry about the results.
Kol Tuv,
Dovid Bloom
Thank you for your prompt answer. However, I still don't understand because of the following questions.
1) The Ramban not only says that about the Avos but the B'nai Yisroel in general. Kabolas h'Torah and mitzvos was conditional on getting physical possession of the "promised land". This then begs the question why were they punished in the midbar (M'koshes ayzim etc.) why were they different from Yaacov Avinu? Clearly ,if they accepted the Taryag Mitzvos but it did not go into effect till later-why were they punished?
2) From Chizkiyahu we see that the RB"S OLAM does not need man's help .He can do whatever He wants. If the" Shivtay Kah" were meant to be born to Yaacov and that is what H-shem wanted --so be it and no need for Yaacov's concern. We clearly see that from the Avos and Emahos who were theoretically incapable of reproducing. Generally, we see that whenever man attempts to help G-d it does not turn out well (Chava ,Rivka etc. )
3) the mitzva of pirya v'rivya is fully accomplished by less than a dozen children
1.
(a) Bnei Yisrael received the Torah only 50 days after they left Egypt. All the incidents for which they were punished occured after they recieved the Torah. That they were already different from Yakov Avinu, because the entire Jewish people was now obligated to observe the Torah.
(b) Observing the Torah does not depend on the Promised Land, because the Torah was given for everywhere in the world.
2.
(a) The Nefesh ha'Chayim (Sha'ar 1, end of chapter 21) writes that Yakov Avinu perceived according to the root of his soul that he would cause great Tikunum in the Upper Worlds if he would marry Rachel and Leah and they would build the House of Yisrael.
(b) Perhaps we may phrase this in slightly different words and say that Yakov saw that he had a great mission in life to build the Jewish Nation. Since the Torah was not yet obligatory, he was able to act contrary to what it says if he saw that doing so would have a positive effect. Now that the Torah has been given, we must follow it even if it sometimes seems to us that we could achieve more results by other means.
3.
(a) Giving birth to a boy and a girl is only the minimum way of fulfilling the Mitzvah. The Gemara in Yevamos (62b) teaches that one should still try to bear more children, as Koheles (11:6) states, "In the morning sow your seed and in the evening do not relax."
(b) Yakov saw through Ru'ach ha'Kodesh that to create the Jewish people in the proper way he had to give birth to the Twelve Shevatim. The Chumash relates that both Avraham and Yitzchak "called in the name of Hashem," but we never find that Yakov made this public call. The Ramban (Bereshis 12:8) writes that it was not necessary for Yakov to do this because "he gave birth to many children, all of whom are servants of Hashem. Yakov possessed a great Kehilah known as Adas Yisrael and the belief in Hashem was made famous by them, and became known to all the peoples."
Kol Tuv,
Dovid Bloom
I asked the Rav again: According to the answer that Kidush ha'Chodesh was not said to Moshe Rabeinu as a command, how are we to understand what Rashi writes at the beginning of the Chumash (which you cited) that Kidush ha'Chodesh was the first Mitzvah commanded to Yisrael?
He answered that Rashi does not mean that it was a Mitzvah.
At the time that Kidush ha'Chodesh was said to Moshe Rabeinu, it was not yet an obligation for Klal Yisrael, and it only became an obligation later on.
This is a Chidush, that the first Mitzvah given to the Jewish people was not actually a Mitzvah at the time that it was given to them, although, as we wrote above, there is strong support for this Chidush from the fact that the Mitzvah of Kidush ha'Chodesh applies only in Eretz Yisrael, as the Gemara derives in Berachos (63b) from the verse (Yeshayahu 2:3) "For the Torah shall go forth from Tziyon".
Dovid Bloom