More Discussions for this daf
1. Terumah 2. Mechamer 3. Rambam on Mechamer
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SHABBOS 153

David Held asked:

Please see the Magid Mishneh on Rambam Hil' Shabbos 20:1-2. Regarding a case where a man led the laden animal (mechamer), isn't there a lav? So answers the Magid in the Rambam that this lav only applies if there is a shutfus and that the lav doesn't apply because it is an azhara for misa. The Magid implies that the lav should apply to mechamer as well. This is my question: didn't he just say that the lav applies to where there is shutfus, such as when both the animal and man need each other in order to plow? As far as I know, there isn't any shutfus in mechamer though. I have seen the same language in the Chinuch. Is it the case where the Magid says that the aseh is where the animal acts "without help from a man" that means without the man even in the vicinity of the animal to lead him? Also, what if the owner of the animal is not plowing with the animal but another man. In this instance, does the lav apply to the owner, but the plowing man gets skila as if he acted without the animal? Please adviseif you know.

Have an easy fast. Thanks!

David Held, Passaic, NJ

The Kollel replies:

Dear David,

There are 2 levels of Lav - 1) forbidden by the Torah 2) punishment of Malkos. Sometimes it can mean only 1) and not 2), such as when the Lav is used for cases of death penalty.

When a man plows with an animal he is put to death because that is called using the animal. When a man causes an animal to carry, only the animal carried in which case the man did Mechamer and did a Lav of the Torah but without Malkos since the same Lav is the source of death by plowing. So explains the Magid Mishnah.

(He adds that the Ramban understands the Rambam differently: that there is no Lav in Mechamer at all only an Aseh and the Lav is only by plowing, etc.)

I would say that when another man plows, the plower gets Sekilah because he plowed using an animal and who cares who's animal or plow he uses. The owner only gets an Aseh since the Lav only applies if he did work.

If the man didn't cause his animal to carry, whether he's there or not, there is only an Aseh of having your animal rest on Shabbos.

All the best,

Reuven Weiner