Shalom Aleichem,

first and foremost I wanted to thank you so much for your incredible website which is an incredible כלי for כלל ישראל I started a pe-shachareit daf yomi program in my yeshiva and personally use your site in order to prepare particularly on dapim which have difficult words, so thank you very much.

I am currently learning Hilchot Shabbat and checked your site to see the גמרא in שבת קמ. Regarding מלבן at the very bottom of the daf. In the point by point section of your website on this daf you wrote:

--

3)TAKING CARE OF GARMENTS ON SHABBOS

(a)Question (Rav Acha bar Yosef): May one rub a [hard, laundered] linen garment (to soften it; this also makes it whiter)?

(b)Answer (Rav Safra): It is permitted, because he intends to soften it.

(c)Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak: Why didn't you ask about a turban?

(d)Rav Acha: I already asked Rav Huna (he permitted it).

(e)Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak: You should have been able to derive that also a linen garment is permitted!

(f)Rav Acha: A linen garment gets whiter, a turban does not.

--

I had a few questions about this: first off we generally seem to say that a סודר is an outer garment and thus we are more מקפיד for how it looks as רש"י says at the bottom of the עמוד where he writes "שמקפיד על ליבונו וצוהרו של סודר יותר מכותנא"". What comes out from this is that in my opinion you reversed the פסק here as it seems that we understand that רב הונא came to say that it is אסור לשפשף the סודר and thus why he says I cant learn from the סודר to the כותונת because the סודר we are מקפיד that it is white and scrubbing whitens it, מה שאין כן regarding the כותונת which is an undershirt and thus we do not whiten it by rubbing. We also see this regarding the use of the לשון of "התם" there seemingly being past tense being when I asked in the past regarding the סודר and "הכא" being now when I asked about the כותנת.

This also seems to be your understanding in the "Full Review" where you wrote

--

(b)He asked him whether one is permitted to rub freshly laundered linen clothes on Shabbos or not.

(c)He thought that it might be forbidden - because maybe one's intention is to make them more white, in which case it would be Asur mi'de'Rabbanan because of Molid (creating something new).

(d)Rav Safra nevertheless ruled that it is permitted - because he held that one's main objective is to soften the clothes, which is permitted.

9)

(a)Rav Acha bar Yosef ...

1. ... declined to ask Rav Safra the same question regarding a freshly laundered Sudar (head-cloth) - because he had already asked Rav Huna about that, and he had duly forbidden it.

2. ... did not apply the answer he received from Rav Huna to his She'eilah regarding freshly laundered clothes - since the owner of a Sudar, who tends to be more particular, definitely intends to make it white, whereas the owner of other clothes might not, as we explained.

==

This also was the understanding of my Rebbe HaRav Shaul Batat Shlit"a, as is also to be seen from the פסק of the שולחן ערוך שב:ה where he writes חלוק לאחר כביסה הוא מתקשה ומשפשפים אותו בידיים לרככו מותר לעשותו בשבת שאינו מתכון אלא לרככו. אבל סודר אסור מפני שמתכוון לצחצחו והוי כמלבן

This is also how the ר"ן בדפי הרי"ף שבת נח. "וגרסינן" understood the גמרא according to רש"י and the רמב"ם הלכות שבת פרק כב

I see now as I look into this sugyah a bit more that the understanding you wrote on the site is like the ר"ן's understanding of how the רי"ף וראב"ד paskened that סודר וכותונת have the same הלכה and that both are מותר

Thank you so much again for this amazing resource I plan to b" continue to learn and learn from it for years to come.

All the best