More Discussions for this daf
1. Two stories of prophecy 2. The Kusim's forgery 3. Gascalgus
4. Pasuk Of Location Of Har Gerizim And Har Eival 5. Tefilos in Aramaic 6. Eilonei Moreh - Shechem
7. גסקלגס 8. קול קול ממשה, ענייה ענייה מלויים
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SOTAH 33

David asks:

Greetings. I am totally perplexed how and why R. Yochanan could possibly propose a reason (even as interpreted by rishonim) for not allowing certain personal prayers to be said specifically in ARAMAIC because of the angels. Since when is halacha determined based on what angels do or don't do, especially since we already know Lo ba'Shamayim Hi??

Thanks,

David Goldman

The Kollel replies:

Dear David,

The concept of Lo ba'Shamayim Hi ("Ein Mashgichin b'Vas Kol"; Bava Metzia 59b) tells us that Halachah is not determined by a Bas Kol. Here we are not determining the Halachah based on what the angels say the Halachah should be but rather on how the angels are involved in our prayers, i.e. they serve as messengers of our prayers.

Actually, even the concept of Ein Mashgichin b'Vas Kol is not so straightforward. The Gemara (Eruvin 13a) says that a Bas Kol announced that the Halachah follows the opinion of Beis Hillel. This Bas Kol we seemed to have accepted. Tosfos in Eruvin (6b, DH Kan) asks why and gives two answers. One is that the Bas Kol there in Bava Metzia came out only for the honor of Rebbi Eliezer; such a Bas Kol we do not follow. The second answer is that the Bas Kol there was going against the majority opinion, while here Beis Hillel is the majority opinion, and the Bas Kol was necessary because Beis Shamai were considered sharper in learning. What comes out of Tosfos is that there are two opinions about a Bas Kol -- one that we accept it under most circumstances and one that we never accept it (the opinion of Rebbi Yehoshua there in Bava Metzia).

That angels serve as messengers of our Tefilos to Shamayim seems to be a tradition the Chachamim had based on the verse, "Im Yesh Alav Mal'ach Melitz..." (Iyov 33:23; see Rabeinu Yonah cited by the Beis Yosef OC 101:4).

It should be pointed out that according to the Rif and Rabeinu Yonah there is nothing special about Aramaic. The Gemara in Sotah (33a) uses "Aramis" to refer to all non-Lashon ha'Kodesh languages. The angels respond only to Lashon ha'Kodesh. This is the opinion brought in Shulchan Aruch (OC 101:4). The Rosh says that Aramaic specifically is particularly undesirable to the angels. Other languages are acceptable. His opinion is brought as a Yesh Omrim.

Kol Tuv,

Yonasan Sigler

This is not a Psak Halachah.

David Goldman asks:

Yet we are told that kaddish is in Aramaic to avoid the angels. But how does kaddish approach Hash-m without the angels as messengers? Logically kaddish should also be in lashon kodesh....

Secondly, why are people allowed to make personal requests in their own language, which is very common and accepted?

The Kollel replies:

Dear David,

Besides the reason you mention, the Aruch ha'Shulchan (OC 55:1) says that Kadish was composed in Aramaic because that was the language of the Jews in Bavel (it was composed by the Anshei Keneses ha'Gedolah after the destruction of the first Beis ha'Mikdash and the exile of the Jews to Bavel), and they therefore would be able to understand it.

In either case, Kadish is a Davar sheb'Kedushah and therefore is only said b'Tzibur. (There are other Tefilos in the Seder ha'Tefilah that are in Aramaic: Berich Shemei before Keri'as ha'Torah, and Yekum Purkan before Shabbos Musaf, and the common denominator of all of them is that they are said only b'Tzibur). The Gemara in Sotah 33a says that a Tefilah said b'Tzibur can be said in any language. Rashi explains that the Tzibur does not require the assistance of Mal'achim that an individual requires.

People who make personal requests in their own language have the opinion of the Rosh to rely on (see Shulchan Aruch OC 101:4), who says that the only language that the Mal'achim avoid getting involved with is Aramaic.

Kol Tuv,

Yonasan

David asks:

Thank you, but how would someone whose native language was Aramaic say his own prayers if Aramaic were not permitted, practically speaking?

The Kollel replies:

Fortunately for such a person learning Lashon ha'Kodesh would not be so daunting. Aramaic grammar and much of its vocabulary is similar to Lashon ha'Kodesh (to the extent that a Get is written in a combination of Lashon ha'Kodesh and Aramaic even though a Get written in two languages is invalid; Shulchan Aruch EH 126:1). So when he has learned Lashon ha'Kodesh he can now -- according to all opinions -- say his personal supplications.

Nonetheless, for someone who has not done that yet (for example, a Ger Tzedek from one of the few small areas of the Middle East where they still speak Aramaic), we have to find another solution. We must keep in mind that in the final analysis, Hash-m is Kol Yachol and certainly can receive any heartfelt Tefilah no matter what language it is said in, indeed even if it is not spoken at all (how does a mute pray?). It is true that Hash-m set up a system for prayer -- speaking out the prayer, saying it in Lashon ha'Kodesh, saying it in a Tzibur -- and all of these things magnify its power, but in the end of the day, Hash-m is Kel Kabir v'Lo Yim'as (Iyov 36:5). So we do all we can do to make our Tefilos as effective as possible and leave the rest to Hash-m.

Kol Tuv,

Yonasan Sigler