More Discussions for this daf
1. Nachum Ish "Gam-Zu" 2. Did Ilfa and Rav Yochanan forget about Yisachar and Zevulun? 3. Isn't a person judged in his present state?
4. Mesivta d'Rekia
DAF DISCUSSIONS - TA'ANIS 21

Albert asked:

dear kollel why is rav nachman gamzu attributed that name- rabbi akiva said the same in berachos "kol madavid rachmana letav avid"?

The Kollel replies:

Rebbi Akiva learned this attribute from Nachum Ish Gam-Zu, who was his rebbi, as the Gemara in Shavuos 26a mentions. Therefore, this diminutive was ascribed only to the person who originated this attribute.

M. Kornfeld

RABBI NACHUM RABINOWITZ adds:

Heard from my wife's grandfather, Rabbi Ashkenazy (Brooklyn, NY)-

R' Akiva acknowkeged that the incidences themselves; candle blowing out, the animal dying were not favorable. He, realized however that they led to an ultimate good.

Nachum Ish Gam Zu on the other hand went yet a step further; the stealing of the treasure itself was inherently good.

For this reason, was Nachum unique.

All the best!

David Retter comments:

I heard another pshat - I don't remember who said it-- that the Midah of Nachum Ish Gam Zu was greater than R' Akiva in that "kol mah deavid rachmanah" refers solely to the RESULT of what happened but not to the happening itself. "Gam zu letovah" implies that the actual happening, no matter how terrible, is actually for the best.

Kol Tuv

Chaim Mateh comments:

The answer that I heard was that indeed both Nachum and Rabi Akiva were worthy of getting the addition "gam zu". However, Nachum won because he came from the town Gimzu (similar to gamzu).

Yosey Goldstein comments:

I have also heard that Reb Akiva's "Kol mah ...." Was a lower Madregah than Nochum's GOM ZU LETOVA. Whereas Nochum saw the good in everything Hash-m does Rebbi Akiva said, "I do not see it now but eventually we will understand that everything Hash-m does is for the good and good will emminate from this" Therefore Nochum's saying was a very high madregah deserving of a title.

(b) P.S. Just a side point, Do we see ANYPLACE in Shas where Nochum Ish GAMZU is quoted halachikally? I do not remember such a place. However we see from the gemmorah that he was a great GODOL (See where he woke up..) The same goes for CHANINA BEN DOSA, My Rov said clearly that he is NEVER quoted lehalacha. That could be why Rashi, when he first mentions reb chanina ben dosa says "He is a Tanna" because otherwise how would we know. (Although I think he is mentioned by reb Yochonon ben zakkai in brochos. Where he explains why his tefillo was not as readily accepted as Reb chanina ben dosa's)

Hatzlocha

The Kollel replies:

(a) Good points! (Chaim, we actually alluded to your answer in our Background to the Daf, entry #10, where we quoted the Ya'avetz as saying that Nachum came from the city of Gimzo, mentioned in Divrei ha'Yamim II 28:18. We wrote a similar thing there about Choni ha'Me'agel.)

(b) We mentioned in the Insights to Ta'anis 24:2, that Rebbi Chanina ben Dosa is mentioned only in the context of stories, and the only time that he is not mentioned in the context of a story is when he is quoted as saying a teaching of Musar (Avos 3:9).

The statement which is quoted from Nachum Ish Gam-Zu in Shavuos (26a) is a Halachic statement.

Mordecai Kornfeld

Shimon asked:

(a) I NOTICED THAT RABBENI CHANNEL ON THE DAF SAYS RAV NACHUM WAS FROM THAT PLACE AS YOU QUOTED IN THE NAME OF THE YAVETZ.

(b) BUT SHOULD NOT HAVE RAV NACHUM HAVE QUOTED IN THE NAME OF THE PERSON WHO SAID IT ESPECIALLY SINCE IT WAS HIS REBBI?

The Kollel replies:

(a) Thank you for pointing out the Rabeinu Chananel to us.

(b) Rebbi Akiva was the Talmid of Nachum Ish Gam-Zu, not his Rebbi, and we have already explained why Rebbi Akiva did not quote his Rebbi when making his statement, "All that Hash-m does, He does for the good."