More Discussions for this daf
1. Animal instinct 2. For Moshe Rabbeinu it was Easy 3. Havdalah Al ha'Kos
4. Havdalah 5. When One Sees An Ox While Davening 6. Chavrusa
7. Black bulls, Otiyot and Arod 8. Don't worry about a snake; keep away from a Shor Tam 9. Havdalah
10. Arod 11. Saying Modim twice 12. Shemoneh Esreh in the times of the Mikdash
13. Berachah she'Einah Tzerichah
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BERACHOS 33

David Goldman asks:

I don't understand why chachamim made havdala on a cup instead of just tefilla when people got richer since halacha allows havdala (and kiddush) to be made on chamar medina anyway. Unless this doesn't davka mean wine, but even chamar medina. In any case, what does it have to do with wealth if one could use chamar medina?

David Goldman, USA

The Kollel replies:

Sholom Rav,

If, as you think, one may use Chamar Medinah, what makes you think that, 'on a cup' means wine, and not Chamar Medinah? However, that is not the case. Chamar Medinah can only be used Bedi'eved. Lechatchilah, one should use wine.

Chazal instituted all Mitzvos of this nature, Kidush, Havdalah, Sheva B'rachos al ha Kos. And it was only because people could not afford wine that they initially instituted Havdalah in Tefilah. It stands to reason therefore, that once they became more wealthy, they switched to Havdalah al ha'Kos.

Be'Virchas Kol Tuv,

Eliezer Chrysler

David Goldman asks:

But then certainly instead of making havdala on a cup in shul anyone could do it over chamar medina at home individually if lechatchila they couldn't afford wine, so what's the big deal? Plus when maariv was completely reshus then they didn't have to go to shul on motsai shabbos before the takkana

In all likelihood they just said hamavdil before doing a melacha ...

The Kollel replies:

I'm not clear what you are asking, but what is clear that the Chachamim never made a Takanah on Chamar Medinah, only on wine. Chamar Medinah is strictly Bedi'eved (e.g.where no wine is available).

Be'Virchas Kol Tuv

Eliezer Chrysler

David Goldman asks:

I just meant that if Maariv was reshus and it was possible to make havdala on chamar medina at home, then why was a takkana to make it in shul necessary?

Plus,, presumably even before a takkana on a cup Jews simply said the havdala bracha before doing a melacha and that was always sufficient.

Why then was it so important to add a cup at all, especially if under many circumstances wine might be unavailable?

The Kollel replies:

Sholom Rav,

As I explained, Chazal wanted to introduce Havdalah al ha'Kos, just like they did by Kidush, and specifically over a cup of wine (for various reasons). It is only if wine is not available that one can use other beverages that fall under the category of Chamar Medinah (I suppose because it does bear some resemblance to wine, if only in name).

Be'Virchas Kol Tuv,

Eliezer Chrysler