THE ISUR TAKES EFFECT ON KODSHIM
Answer: Even though the Isur of Kodshim comes first, the Isur of the Gid is Chal on it, because it is more stringent. It applies also to Bnei No'ach.
Question: R. Yehudah is the Tana who considers this to be a stringency. Our Mishnah is not like R. Yehudah!
Our Mishnah forbids the right and left Gidin. R. Yehudah forbids only one!
Answer: Our Tana holds like R. Yehudah that Gid ha'Nasheh is a severe Isur, but he forbids both Gidim like Chachamim.
Objection: R. Yehudah said that Gid ha'Nasheh is severe and is Chal on the Isur of a Tamei animal, which is a regular Lav. We have no source that it is Chal on Kodshim!
Kodshim are severe. They entail Kares (if a Tamei person ate Kodshim, or one who eats Pigul or Nosar).
Answer #3 (to Question 3:f, 89b): Our Mishnah teaches that Gid ha'Nasheh applies to a Bechor (firstborn male. It becomes Kodesh when it leaves the womb, and the Gid is already forbidden.)
Answer #4: Our Tana holds that the offspring of Kodshim become Kodesh when they leave the womb.
GID HA'NASHEH ON THE MIZBE'ACH
(R. Chiya bar Yosef): The Mishnah says that Gid ha'Nasheh applies to Kodshim. This applies only to Kodshim that are eaten, but not to those that are not eaten (e.g. Olah).
(R. Yochanan): It applies to both kinds of Kodshim.
(Rav Papa): They do not argue. They discuss different matters;
Version #1: R. Yochanan obligates lashes for eating the Gid of either type of Kodshim;
R. Chiya bar Yosef teaches that the Gid is offered on the Mizbe'ach (i.e. we leave it in the thigh of an Olah).
Version #2: R. Chiya bar Yosef teaches that the Gid need not be removed from an Olah;
R. Yochanan teaches that if the Gid was removed, it may not be offered.
(Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak): They argue about offering the Gid on the Mizbe'ach.
(Beraisa): "V'Hiktir ha'Kohen Es ha'Kol ha'Mizbechah" includes bones, Gidim, horns and hoofs;
Suggestion: Perhaps they are offered even if they separated from the meat!
Rejection: "V'Asisa Olosecha ha'Basar veha'Dam." (We offer only blood and meat.)
Suggestion: Perhaps we must remove the Gidim and bones!
Rejection: "V'Hiktir ha'Kohen Es ha'Kol".
Resolution: He burns them if they are attached. If they became separated, even on top of the Mizbe'ach, they are brought down.
This is like Rebbi;
(Beraisa): "V'Hiktir ha'Kohen Es ha'Kol ha'Mizbechah" includes bones, Gidim, horns and hooves, even if they separated.
Question: What do we learn from "v'Asisa Olosecha ha'Basar veha'Dam"?
Answer: It teaches about things that fly off the Mizbe'ach when being burned:
If meat comes off, we return it. If bones and Gidim come off, we don't return them.
Contradiction (Rebbi): One verse teaches that we burn everything, and another says only blood and meat!
Resolution (Rebbi): We burn everything that is attached. What separated, even on the Mizbe'ach, is brought down.
Chachamim: The verse need not teach that they are offered when attached. We learn from the head. It has many bones, and it is offered whole!
Rather, the verse teaches that even if they separated, they are offered.
Rebbi: We learn from the head only that things permitted (to Yisraelim) are offered when attached;
The verse teaches that the Gid ha'Nasheh is offered when attached.
Chachamim: "Mi'Mashke Yisrael" - only things permitted to Yisrael are offered.
Rebbi: Blood and Chelev are offered, even though they are forbidden to Yisrael!
Chachamim: They are the primary things offered. We cannot learn to other forbidden parts of the animal.
(Rav Huna): The thigh of an Olah is taken up the ramp whole. On top, the Gid ha'Nasheh is removed and thrown onto the ash-heap.
(Rav Chisda): Bnei Yisrael are forbidden to eat the Gid ha'Nasheh. The Mizbe'ach may consume it!
Rav Huna learns from "mi'Mashke Yisrael".
Question (Beraisa): The Gid ha'Nasheh of a Shelamim is swept into the Amah (a channel that flows through the Azarah). An Olah's Gid is brought up.
Suggestion: It is brought up and burned on the Mizbe'ach.
Answer: No, it is brought up (the ramp) and removed.
Question: If so, why do we bring it up?
Answer: It is not nice to bring up a thigh from which the Gid has been removed.
Support (for Rav Huna - Beraisa): The Gid ha'Nasheh of a Shelamim is swept into the Amah. An Olah's Gid is removed and thrown onto the ash-heap.
(Mishnah): The ash-heap was in the middle of the Mizbe'ach. Sometimes, there would be 300 Kor (about 10,000 liters) of ashes.
(Rava): This is an exaggeration.
(Mishnah): They would give the Korban Tamid to drink from a gold cup before slaughtering it.
(Rava): This is an exaggeration.
(R. Ami): The Torah, prophets, and Chachamim all exaggerate:
Chachamim exaggerate in the above examples;
The Torah exaggerates - "great cities, fortified up to Heaven".
The Nevi'im exaggerate - "the land cleaved from their voices".
(R. Yitzchak bar Nachmani): Chachamim exaggerated in three places - the ash-heap (above), the golden vine, and the Paroches (curtain in the Mikdash.)
(Mishnah): There was a golden vine on the entrance to the Heichal, supported by poles. If someone donated a grape or cluster (of gold), they would hang it on the vine;
R. Eliezer b'Rebbi Tzadok says, 300 Kohanim were needed to move it.
(Mishnah - R. Shimon ben Gamliel): The Paroches was one Tefach thick. It was made with 72 Nirim (a Nir is a thread with a ring through which warp threads pass). Each strand was made of 24 threads;
It was 40 Amos long and 20 Amos wide. It was made from 82,000 threads (some say 82,000 weavers);
Every year, two were made. 300 Kohanim were needed to immerse it.
THE LEFT AND RIGHT GIDIN
(Mishnah): The Gidin of both thighs are forbidden.
Our Mishnah is not like R. Yehudah;
(Beraisa - R. Yehudah): Only one of them is forbidden. Da'as (understanding) dictates that it is the right Gid.
Question: Did R. Yehudah reach a sure verdict?
The 'Da'as' he refers to is the Torah;
Or, perhaps he was unsure, and he said that Da'as leans to say that it is the right Gid?
Answer #1 (Beraisa): Bones, Gidim and Nosar (what was left over until morning) of the Korban Pesach are burned on the 16th of Nisan.
Question: What is the case of Gidim?
If they are edible Gidim, they should be eaten, not burned!
They cannot be Nosar, for Nosar is listed separately!
Answer #1: They are Gidim of the neck (which are generally too hard to eat).
Objection: If they are not considered meat (rather, bone), they can be discarded. Why must they be burned?
Answer #2 (Rav Chisda): The Beraisa discusses the Gid ha'Nasheh, according to R. Yehudah;
If he was unsure which is forbidden, we understand this. Because of the doubt, neither Gid is eaten. Both must be burned.
(Culmination of answer (d)): If he was sure that the right Gid is forbidden, it can be discarded, and the left Gid should be eaten!
Rejection #1: (Rav Ika bar Chanina): Really, he is sure. The case is, the two Gidim got mixed up, so they must be burned.