Question: In any case, how do we answer Rava's question?

Answer (Rava): In Melikah, one breaks the neckbone without cutting most of the flesh (so the bird is not a Neveilah before cutting the Simanim).

R. Ami cited Ze'iri's teaching. R. Zeira asked Rava's question. R. Ami pondered, then gave Rava's answer.

Support (Beraisa): In Melikah of a Chatas, one cuts the spine and neckbone without cutting most of the flesh. When he reaches the Kaneh or Veshet, he cuts one Siman or its majority, and most of the flesh with it;

In an Olah, he cuts both Simanim or the majority of both.

Question: Like whom is this Beraisa?

It is not like Chachamim. They require cutting the entire Siman(im);

It is not like R. Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon. He says not to cut the entire Siman(im), only the majority!

Answer #1: The Beraisa teaches that according to Chachamim, he cuts the entire Siman(im), and according to R. Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon, he cuts the majority.

Answer #2: It is like R. Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon. It says that he cuts a (substantial) majority of the Siman(im), which is like cutting the entire Siman(im).

(Rav Yehudah): If the neckbone (of a person) and the majority of surrounding flesh were cut, he is Metamei b'Ohel (anything above, below, or under the same roof as him becomes Tamei, for he is dead).

Question: Eli died when his neckbone broke, even though the flesh was not cut!

Answer: An old person is different. "His neckbone broke and he died, for he was very old".

(R. Shmuel bar Nachmani): If a person was torn lengthwise like a fish, he is Metamei b'Ohel.

(R. Shmuel bar Yitzchak): This is only if he was cut from the back.

(Shmuel): If an animal was cut into two pieces, it is a Neveilah.

(R. Elazar): If the thigh and its cavity were removed, the animal is a Neveilah.

Question: What is the case that the cavity was removed?

Answer (Rava): When it crouches, one can see that something is missing.

(Mishnah): If the head was chopped off, even if it is still quivering, it is a Neveilah.

This is like a lizard's tail, which keeps quivering even after it was cut off.

Question: What is the meaning of 'the head was chopped off'?

Answer #1 (Reish Lakish): Literally, it was totally severed.

Version #1 - Answer #2 (Rav Asi): The Simanim were cut like we do to Olas ha'Of.

R. Yirmeyah (to Rav Asi): Do you mean like Chachamim (the Simanim are totally severed), and you agree with Reish Lakish? Or, do you mean like R. Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon (the majority of the each Siman is severed), and you argue with Reish Lakish?

Rav Asi: I mean like R. Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon.

Version #2 - Answer #2 (Rav Asi): The (majority of the) Simanim were cut like we do to Olas ha'Of according to R. Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon.

Question: What is the source of the opinions of the Chachamim and R. Elazar b. R. Shimon?

(Beraisa): "The second (bird) will be offered for an Olah, like the law", i.e. like the law of Chatas Behemah.

Question: Perhaps it is like Chatas ha'Of! (The verse teaches that he need not divide the head from the body.)

Answer: "He will offer it" distinguishes between Chatas ha'Of and Olas ha'Of.

Rather, Olas ha'Of is equated to Chatas Behemah to teach that it cannot come from money of Ma'aser Sheni, and it must be offered during the day and with the right hand.

Suggestion: Perhaps just like it suffices to cut the majority of both Simanim of Chatas Behemah, also of Olas ha'Of!

Rejection: "U'Malak... v'Hiktir (he will do Melikah and he will burn)" teaches that just like the head and body of Olas ha'Of are burned separately on the Mizbe'ach, also Melikah separates the head from the body (i.e. the Simanim are cut entirely).

R. Yishmael says, "like the law" refers to the law of Chatas ha'Of;

Just like Melikah of a Chatas is done on the back of the neck, also Melikah of an Olah.

Suggestion: Perhaps just like one leaves the head and body of Chatas ha'Of connected, the same applies to Olas ha'Of!

Rejection: "He will offer it." (Olas ha'Of is not offered like Chatas ha'Of.)