PAST DEDICATION
BAVA KAMA 66-67 - Dedicated by Drs. Shalom and Syma Kelman of Baltimore in honor of their children and grandchildren.

1)

(a)The Beraisa over which Rebbi Ila'a and Rebbi Chanina argue states 'Meshalem Tashlumei Kefel v'Tashlumei Arba'ah va'Chamishah Ke'ein she'Ganav'. Why is this a Kashya on Rav? What does Rav say (in the previous Sugya) about Kefel Arba'ah va'Chamishah, in a case where the animal appreciated or depreciated in value?

(b)How does Rava reconcile Rav with the Beraisa? When do we go after the current price, and when is the Ganav permitted to pay the original price of the animal?

1)

(a)The Beraisa over which Rebbi Ila'a and Rebbi Chanina argue states 'Meshalem Tashlumei Kefel ve'Tashumei Arba'ah va'Chamishah Ke'ein she'Ganav', a Kashya on Rav, who holds that in a case where the animal appreciated (as in this case) or depreciated in value, 'Kefel Arba'ah va'Chamishah ke'Sha'as ha'Amadah ba'Din', (as we learned in the previous Sugya).

(b)Rava reconciles Rav with the Beraisa by differentiating between whether the Ganav replaces the animal that he stole with another one (in which case he pays everything according to its value at the time that he stole it), or whether he pays for the theft in cash (in which case we assess the Kefel, the Daled and the Hey according to its current value [see also Tosfos DH 'Tela'im').

2)

(a)What does Rabah learn from the Pasuk in Vayikra "v'Heishiv Es ha'Gezeilah"?

(b)What does the Mishnah in 'ha'Gozel Kama' say about someone who ...

1. ... steals wood which he uses to manufacture vessels or wool from which he weaves a garment?

2. ... dyes the wool of Reishis ha'Gez (the first shearings, that he should have given to the Kohen)?

(c)What does Rabah extrapolate from these Mishnayos?

2)

(a)Rabah extrapolates from the Pasuk "ve'Heishiv es ha'Gezeilah" that if the animal remains the way it was when the thief stole it, he is obligated to return it to the owner; otherwise, he simply pays its value (in other words 'Shinuy Koneh').

(b)The Mishnah in ha'Gozel Kamah rules that if someone ...

1. ... steals wood which he uses to manufacture vessels or wool from which he weaves a garment he only needs to pay the value of the article of the wood or the wool, but not of the manufactured product.

2. ... dyes the wool of Reishis ha'Gez (the first shearings that he should have given to a Kohen) he is Patur from giving Reishis ha'Gez to the Kohen (because, as opposed to a case of theft, there is no claimant).

(c)Rabah extrpolates from these Mishnahs that 'Shinuy is Koneh'.

3)

(a)What Safek did Rabah have with regard to Yi'ush?

(b)Why might Yi'ush be Koneh mid'Oraisa? What precedent do we have for this?

(c)The Beraisa learns that Yi'ush is Koneh by Aveidah from the Pasuk in Ki Setzei "Asher Tovad Mimenu u'Metzasah". How does the Tana learn it from there?

(d)What makes Yi'ush by theft different than Yi'ush by a lost article, that causes Rabah to have doubts as to whether it is Koneh mid'Oraisa?

3)

(a)With regard to Yi'ush however, Rabah had a Safek whether Yi'ush is Koneh mi'd'Oraysa or mi'de'Rabbanan.

(b)Yi'ush might be Koneh mi'd'Oraysa because we have a precedent for this in a lost article, which the finder who picks it up after Yi'ush is permitted to keep.

(c)) The Beraisa learns that Yi'ush is Koneh by Aveidah from the Pasuk in Ki Seitzei "Asher Tovad Mimenu u'Metzasah" which implies that one is only obligated to return a lost article article that is lost from the owner, but avilable to others (precluding one which is not available to anybody [e.g. one that was swept away by a river]). and from which the owner certainly despaired from ever finding it again.

(d)Yi'ush by theft is different than Yi'ush by a lost article inasmuch as unlike a lost article, it came to the Ganav's hands be'Isur. And that causes Rabah to have doubts as to whether it is Koneh mi'd'Oraysa

4)

(a)Rav Yosef queried Rabah from a Beraisa. What does the Tana say about someone who stole Chametz before Pesach and wishes to return it after Pesach?

(b)By what rights is he permitted to say 'Harei she'Lecha Lefanecha', seeing as the Chametz is completely valueless?

(c)What did Ra Yosef ask Rabah from there?

(d)How will Rabah answer the Kashya?

4)

(a)Rav Yosef queried Rabah from a Beraisa, where the Tana rules that someone who steals Chametz before Pesach and wishes to return it after Pesach may simply place it in front of the owner, say 'Harei she'Lecha Lefanecha', and he will have fulfilled his obligation.

(b)Despite the fact that the Chametz is completely valueless, he is permitted to this due to the principle 'Hezek she'Eino Nikar Lo Shmei Hezek' ('Damage that is not discernable is not considered damage').

(c)Rav Yosef asked Rabah that the owner was certainly Meya'esh from his Chametz, once the Isur Chametz took effect, in which case, how can the Ganav later say 'harei she'L'cha Lefanecha!'.

(d)Rabah will answer that even if Yi'ush is Koneh elsewhere, it will not be Koneh here, since it only acquires elsewhere because the Ganav wants to acquire it, but which Ganav wants to acquire Chamets from the moment it becomes forbidden.

66b----------------------------------------66b

5)

(a)What does the Beraisa learn from the Pasuk in Vayikra "Im Olah Korbano"?

(b)How do we know that the Pasuk is speaking after Yi'ush?

(c)What did Abaye ask Rava from this Beraisa on Rabah?

5)

(a)The Beraisa learns from the Pasuk in Vayikra "Im Olah Korbano" that one can only declare a Korban on an animal that belongs to him, but not a stolen one.

(b)The Pasuk can only be speaking after Yi'ush because if it was before Yi'ush, it seems obvious that such a Korban is not valid.

(c)Abaye asked Rava from this Beraisa on Rabah in whose opinion Yi'ush is Koneh (perhaps even mi'd'Oraysa) in which case there is no reason for the Korban not to take effect.

6)

(a)In what connection does another Beraisa extrapolate "Mishkavo", 've'Lo ha'Gazul'?

(b)What problem does Rava have with this Beraisa?

(c)How does Rava therefore explain both Beraisos, at the same time resolving the Kashya on Rabah (assuming that the Pasuk is speaking before Yi'ush)?

(d)Alternatively, the Pasuk might even be speaking after Yi'ush. What does the Beraisa then teach us?

6)

(a)Another Beraisa extrapolates "Mishkavo", 've'Lo ha'Gazul' that the Din of Tum'as Mishkav (that a blanket for example, on which a Zav lies becomes an Av ha'Tum'ah) does not pertain to a stolen article.

(b)Rava asks that if the Pasuk is speaking where the Ganav stole wool and made it into a blanket (in the way that Rabah explained the previous D'rashah [that he stole a Chulin animal and declared it Hekdesh]), then there would be no reason for the Din of Tum'as Mishkav not to take effect seeing as the Ganav has been Koneh it with Shinuy.

(c)Rava therefore explains that the Beraisa speaks (not when he stole wool ... , but) when he actually stole a woolen blanket. Likewise the previous Beraisa speaks when he stole a Hekdesh animal of his friend (before Yi'ush), and the Beraisa teaches us that the animal cannot be brought on the Mizbe'ach, even on behalf of the original owner.

(d)Alternatively, the Pasuk might even be speaking after Yi'ush because Yi'ush is ineffective with regard to a Korban, which cannot be stolen, because wherever it is, the real owner is Hash-m, and it can therefore never change hands.

7)

(a)What does the Tana of the Beraisa mean when he says 'Oros Shel Ba'al ha'Bayis Machshavah Metam'asan'? What does 'Machshavah' mean?

(b)He continues however, 've'Shel Abdan, Ein Machshavtan Metam'asan'. On what grounds does he draw a distinction between the two?

(c)And on what grounds does ...

1. ... the Tana Kama conclude 'Shel Ganav, Machshavtan Metam'asan, v'Shel Gazlan, Ein Machshavtan Metam'asan'?

2. ... Rebbi Shimon say the opposite?

7)

(a)When the Tana in the Beraisa says 'Oros shel Ba'al ha'Bayis Machshavah Metam'asan' he means that if a private person decides to use a piece of unfinished leather for a specific purpose (and not to shape it further), his decision turns the piece of leather into a vessel which is subject to Tum'ah.

(b)He continues however, 've'shel Abdan, Ein Machshavtan Metam'asan' because a tanner who sells his finished products, might well decide today to stop at a certain point in the production. But tomorrow, when a customer asks for a specific vessel that requires further cutting, he will continue cutting it. Consequently, even after deciding to use a piece of leather the way it is, it is still considered unfinished, and is not subject to Tum'ah until it is cut to shape.

(c)

1. The Tana Kama concludes 'shel Ganav, Machshavtan Metam'asan, ve'shel Gazlan, Ein Machshavtan Metam'asan' because he holds that in the case of a Ganav, who is generally unknown, the owner despairs of ever finding out who the Ganav is; whereas in the case of a Gazlan, whom he recognizes, there is no Yi'ush, because he plans to take him to Beis-Din, and retrieve his article by force.

2. Whereas Rebbi Shimon maintains the opposite. According to him it is by a Gazlan that the owner despairs, because one is dealing with a tough guy; not so a Ganav, of whom he is not afraid, and whom he therefore plans to find and to retrieve his article.

8)

(a)Abaye now queries Rav Yosef (who holds that Yi'ush is not Koneh) from this Beraisa. What does Rav Yosef reply?

(b)Rabah bar Rav Chanan objects to this answer however, on the grounds that the Tana is referring to an Itzva. What is an 'Itzva'?

(c)His objection is based on a Mishnah in Kelim. What does the Tana say about vessels that require trimming? Why is an Itzva different?

(d)For twenty-two years Rav Yosef was unable to answer this Kashya. What major change then took place in Rav Yosef's life, that probably gave him the impetus to discover the answer?

8)

(a)Abaye now queries Rav Yosef (who holds that Yi'ush is not Koneh) from this Beraisa. Rav Yosef replies that the Tana is not speaking about plain Yi'ush, but about where the Ganav actually cut the leather to shape, in which case he acquires it with Yi'ush and Shinuy Ma'aseh (see Tosfos DH 'Shinuy ha'Shem').

(b)Rabah bar Rav Chanan objects to this answer however, on the grounds that the Tana is referring to an Itzva a piece of leather that they would use as a table, to eat on.

(c)His objection is based on a Mishnah in Keilim where the Tana says that vessels that require trimming are not subject to Tum'ah until they have actually been trimmed, with the exception of an Itzva, which becomes subject to Tum'ah with thought alone, because it is fit to use the way it is.

(d)For twenty-two years Rav Yosef was unable to answer this Kashya until he succeeded Rabah as Rosh Yeshivah.

9)

(a)How does Rav Yosef finally answer the Kashya? If the Ganav did not acquire the skin through Yi'ush or through Shinuy Ma'aseh, how did he acquire it?

(b)What is the basic difference between Shinuy Ma'aseh and Shinuy Hash-m (see Tosfos DH 'Shinuy Hashem')?

9)

(a)Rav Yosef finally answers the Kashya by establishing the Beraisa when the Ganav acquired the skin (not through Yi'ush or through Shinuy Ma'aseh, but) through Shinuy ha'Shem.

(b)The basic difference between Shinuy Ma'aseh and Shinuy Hash-m, says Tosfos, is that whereas the former does not require Yi'ush, the latter does (see Tosfos Sukah 30b DH 've'Liknaya').

10)

(a)What is a 'Marish'?

(b)According to the Mishnah in Eduyos, if someone steals a Marish and builds into his mansion, he is permitted to pay its value. Why is he not obligated to demolish the mansion in order to return the beam?

(c)What is a 'Keshura' and a 'Telala'?

(d)In what way does this create a Kashya on Rav Yosef?

10)

(a)A 'Marish' is a beam.

(b)According to the Mishnah in Iduyos, if someone steals a Marish and buids into his mansion, he is permitted to pay its value. He is not obligated to demolish the mansion in order to return the beam because of 'Takanas ha'Shavim' (to facilitate the Ganav to do Teshuvah which he would hesitate to do, if it meant demolishing his mansion).

(c)A 'Keshura' and a 'Telala' are two names for a beam, the one before it is built into a house, the other afterwards.

(d)This creates a Kashya on Rav Yosef according to whom the Ganav ought to acquire the Marish anyway, because of Shinuy Hash-m (since before he built it into his mansion, it was called a 'Keshura' and afterwards it became a 'Telala').

11)

(a)To answer the previous Kashya, Rav Yosef cites a Pasuk in Yechezkel "Tzal'os ha'Bayis v'ha'Uvim". According to the Tana of the Beraisa, what were the ...

1. ... "Tzal'os ha'Bayis"?

2. ... "Uvim"?

(b)What does Rav Yosef prove from this Beraisa? What does the Tana call the beams?

(c)According to Rebbi Zeira, the Shinuy Hash-m of Marish would not acquire anyway. Why not?

11)

(a)To answer the previous Kashya, Rav Yosef cites a Pasuk in Yechezkel "Tzal'os ha'Bayis ve'ha'Uvim". According to the Tana of the Beraisa, the ...

1. ... "Tzal'os ha'Bayis" were the window and door frames.

2. ... ''Uvim" were the beams.

(b)Rav Yosef proves from this Beraisa that a Marish does not really change its name, since the Tana refers to the beams as 'Marishos', even though the Pasuk is speaking about beams that had been built into a house, and in the previous Mishnah, the Tana referred to a loose beam as Marish, too.

(c)According to Rebbi Zeira, the Shinuy Hash-m of Marish would not acquire anyway because it is a Shinuy that is easily retractable, and Shinuy ha'Shem only acquires when it is permanent.

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