DOES THE SMELL MATTER? (cont.)
Rejection: Indeed, Rava cannot hold like R. Meir, but even R. Yehudah could hold like Abaye!
(Rabah bar bar Chanah): All forbid warm bread that was put on top of an open barrel (it absorbs a strong smell);
All permit cold bread that was put on top of a closed barrel;
They argue about warm bread on a closed barrel and cold bread on an open barrel.
Smelling through Bas Tiha is like warm bread on an open barrel!
'NOSEN TA'AM LI'FGAM'
(Mishnah): The general rule is, if it gives a beneficial taste...
(Rav Yehudah): The Halachah is like our Mishnah.
(Rav Yehudah and Rabah bar bar Chanah): We permit only when the vinegar fell on hot grits;
If it fell on cold grits and then they were heated, this is like something that initially was li'Shvach (improves the taste) and later was Pogem (spoils the taste). It is forbidden.
(Rav Dimi): People used to put vinegar on cold grits on Erev Shabbos in Tzipori. They called it Shichlayim (cress), for vinegar is also added to Shichlayim.
Version #1 (Reish Lakish): We do not permit due to Nosen Ta'am li'Fgam if the mixture tastes bad due to too much or too little salt or spices;
Rather, Nosen Ta'am li'Fgam permits if it is properly seasoned, and the Isur detracts from the taste.
Version #2 (Reish Lakish): Do not say that if a mixture had more or less seasoning it would taste good, therefore we do not permit due to Nosen Ta'am li'Fgam;
Rather, if (as it is seasoned) now the Isur detracts from the taste, it is permitted. (end of Version #2)
(R. Avahu): If the Isur gives taste and is intact, if it has k'Zayis (of Isur) bi'Chdei Achilas Pras (in the volume of a half loaf, i.e. three or four eggs), it is forbidden. One is lashed for eating (a k'Zayis of Isur in) the mixture;
If the Isur gives taste and is not intact (Rashi - it was dissolved; R. Eliyahu - it is less than k'Zayis bi'Chdei Achilas Pras; R. Yosef - even if it has k'Zayis bi'Chdei Achilas Pras), it is forbidden, but one is not lashed for eating it;
If it makes the taste even worse, it is permitted.
Question: Why not say that if it harms the taste, it is permitted?
Answer: This teaches that even if other (permitted) things also harm the taste, it is permitted.
The Halachah follows Version #2 of Reish Lakish.
(Rav Kahana): We learn from all these Amora'im that Nosen Ta'am li'Fgam is permitted.
Objection (Abaye): Granted, we learn from the others, but how do we learn from Reish Lakish?
He explains the Mishnah. Perhaps he holds that the Halachah does not follow our Mishnah!
Question: This implies that a Tana forbids Nosen Ta'am li'Fgam!
(Beraisa - R. Meir): Whether an Isur is li'Shvach or li'Fgam, it forbids (a mixture);
R. Shimon says, li'Shvach forbids, but li'Fgam does not.
R. Meir learns from Isur absorbed in Kelim of Nochrim. Even though it is li'Fgam, the Torah forbids it (i.e. Yisrael needed to Kasher the Kelim they took from Midyan).
R. Shimon explains like Rav Huna brei d'Rav Chiya.
(Rav Huna brei d'Rav Chiya): The Torah forbids only a Keli that absorbed Isur the same day (most explain - within the last 24 hours. After this, the taste is Pagum.)
R. Meir says, even if the Isur was absorbed the same day, it is somewhat Pagum (therefore, we do not distinguish. It is forbidden in any case.)
Question: What is R. Shimon's reason?
Answer (Beraisa): "Lo Sochlu Chol Nevelah la'Ger (... Titnenah va'Achalah)" - it is called (and forbidden like) Neveilah only if a Ger (Toshav) would eat it.
R. Meir does not learn from here. He says that this excludes only a Neveilah that was spoiled from the beginning (before the animal died).
R. Shimon does not need a verse to exclude that case. It is like earth.