In Avodah Zarah (17b), Tosafot states (Yeshalah Adam) that when we say a person should split his learning in three, we mean that we should split our daily learning in three. He also states that this is why Pesukei Karbonot, Ayzeh Mekoman and the Baraitah of Rabbi Yishmael are said.
In Kiddushin (30A), Tosefot states (Lo Zaracha L'Yamin) a similiar thought. He also says that we split our learning into three parts daily, but then states this is why it was established to learn Mikra, Mishnah and Gemara before Pisukei D'zemirah. It seems to me that this refers to what Ashkenazim say for Bircat Hatorah (they learn some Mikrah, Mishnah and Gemara).
1) My question is why does Tosafot use different examples in each of these cases?
2) Furthermore, Ashkenazim don't always say Korbonot (and thus don't say Pisukei Karbonot or Ayzeh Mekoman) while the Sephardic Bircat HaTorah doesn't include Mishnah and Gemara (it only has the Priestly Blessing). It would seem to indicate that there is an actual disagreement between the two opinions as Sephardim do what is done in Avodah Zarah while Ashkenazim do what is done in Kiddushin.
Thanks for your help
Oren P, Silver Spring, USA
1) I'm not sure they are. The Tosfos in Kidushin could, in fact, be saying the same thing. They just don't spell it out as clearly as they do in Avodah Zarah. They just say "we are accustomed to say before Pesukei d'Zimrah Mikra, Mishnah, and Gemara". That sounds like it could be referring to Parshas ha'Tamid, the Mishnah of Eizehu Mekoman, and the Beraisa of R' Yishmael. This seems to be the conclusion of the editors of the new Vagshal Talmud (Neharda) that put a commentary in the margin of the Gemara - called Tosefes Tosfos (similar to Tosefes Rashi which is now in many editions of the Talmud) that cross-references and compares similar comments of Tosfos throughout the Talmud.
2) Could be. But I think I have a more compelling theory to explain the difference in Minhag between Ashkenazim and Sephardim regarding Birkas ha'Torah. There is a Machlokes Rishonim regarding whether one must learn Torah straightaway after saying Birkas ha'Torah (see Tosfos, Berachos 11b, DH sh'Kevar). This Machlokes was carried forward by the Beis Yosef and the Darkei Moshe. The Beis Yosef holds that if one does not learn straightaway after Birkas ha'Torah it is not considered a Hefsek. This is how he rules in the Shulchan Aruch OC 47:9. The Darkei Moshe holds that it is a Hefsek. The Beis Yosef (ibid) concedes that it is fitting to learn something right after Birkas ha'Torah, therefore one should say the verses of Birkas Kohanim. The Darkei Moshe who says that since one must learn right after, therefore the Minhag is to say Birkas Kohanim, the Mishnah of Elu Devarim and the Beraisa of Elu Devarim, in order to cover all three types of learning. Therefore, the Sephardim who very strictly follow the Beis Yosef say only Birkas Kohanim and the Ashkenazim who follow the Darkei Moshe say the Mishnah and Beraisa as well.
I would offer a different theory to explain why Ashkenazim are not, in general, as careful to say Korbanos as the Sephardim. The recital of Korbanos takes on great significance in the Kabalah of the AR"I Z"L. Korbanos is the first of four main stages in the Seder ha'Tefilah of the morning - Pesukei d'Zimra, Kri'as Shema, and Shemoneh Esreh being the other three - that correspond to the four principal Olamos and the four basic elements of the soul (see Sha'ar ha'Kavanos and Nefesh ha'Chayim). Some Poskim hold, in fact, that Korbanos cannot be skipped entirely, in the same way that Pesukei d'Zimra cannot be skipped entirely (one must at least say Baruch she'Amar, Ashrei, and Yishtabach).
The Sephardim who, in general, follow more closely the dictates of the Kabalah than the Ashkenazim are, therefore, more careful about the recitation of the Korbanos than the Ashkenazim. The proof of this is the fact that the Chasidim - who are of Ashkenazi origin - are also, in general, more careful about the recitation of Korbanos than non-Chasidic Ashkenazim. They, of course, adopted, more or less, the Nusach ha'Tefilah of the AR"I Z"L.
Kol Tuv,
Yonasan Sigler
This is not a Psak Halachah
In Avodah Zarah (17b), Tosafot states (Yeshalah Adam) that when we say a person should split his learning in three, we mean that we should split our daily learning in three. He also states that this is why Pesukei Karbonot, Ayzeh Mekoman and the Baraitah of Rabbi Yishmael are said.
In Kiddushin (30A), Tosefot states (Lo Zaracha L'Yamin) a similiar thought. He also says that we split our learning into three parts daily, but then states this is why it was established to learn Mikra, Mishnah and Gemara before Pisukei D'zemirah. It seems to me that this refers to what Ashkenazim say for Bircat Hatorah (they learn some Mikrah, Mishnah and Gemara).
1) My question is why does Tosafot use different examples in each of these cases?
2) Furthermore, Ashkenazim don't always say Korbonot (and thus don't say Pisukei Karbonot or Ayzeh Mekoman) while the Sephardic Bircat HaTorah doesn't include Mishnah and Gemara (it only has the Priestly Blessing). It would seem to indicate that there is an actual disagreement between the two opinions as Sephardim do what is done in Avodah Zarah while Ashkenazim do what is done in Kiddushin.
Thanks for your help
Oren P, Silver Spring, USA
1) I'm not sure they are. The Tosfos in Kidushin could, in fact, be saying the same thing. They just don't spell it out as clearly as they do in Avodah Zarah. They just say "we are accustomed to say before Pesukei d'Zimrah Mikra, Mishnah, and Gemara". That sounds like it could be referring to Parshas ha'Tamid, the Mishnah of Eizehu Mekoman, and the Beraisa of R' Yishmael. This seems to be the conclusion of the editors of the new Vagshal Talmud (Neharda) that put a commentary in the margin of the Gemara - called Tosefes Tosfos (similar to Tosefes Rashi which is now in many editions of the Talmud) that cross-references and compares similar comments of Tosfos throughout the Talmud.
2) Could be. But I think I have a more compelling theory to explain the difference in Minhag between Ashkenazim and Sephardim regarding Birkas ha'Torah. There is a Machlokes Rishonim regarding whether one must learn Torah straightaway after saying Birkas ha'Torah (see Tosfos, Berachos 11b, DH sh'Kevar). This Machlokes was carried forward by the Beis Yosef and the Darkei Moshe. The Beis Yosef holds that if one does not learn straightaway after Birkas ha'Torah it is not considered a Hefsek. This is how he rules in the Shulchan Aruch OC 47:9. The Darkei Moshe holds that it is a Hefsek. The Beis Yosef (ibid) concedes that it is fitting to learn something right after Birkas ha'Torah, therefore one should say the verses of Birkas Kohanim. The Darkei Moshe who says that since one must learn right after, therefore the Minhag is to say Birkas Kohanim, the Mishnah of Elu Devarim and the Beraisa of Elu Devarim, in order to cover all three types of learning. Therefore, the Sephardim who very strictly follow the Beis Yosef say only Birkas Kohanim and the Ashkenazim who follow the Darkei Moshe say the Mishnah and Beraisa as well.
I would offer a different theory to explain why Ashkenazim are not, in general, as careful to say Korbanos as the Sephardim. The recital of Korbanos takes on great significance in the Kabalah of the AR"I Z"L. Korbanos is the first of four main stages in the Seder ha'Tefilah of the morning - Pesukei d'Zimra, Kri'as Shema, and Shemoneh Esreh being the other three - that correspond to the four principal Olamos and the four basic elements of the soul (see Sha'ar ha'Kavanos and Nefesh ha'Chayim). Some Poskim hold, in fact, that Korbanos cannot be skipped entirely, in the same way that Pesukei d'Zimra cannot be skipped entirely (one must at least say Baruch she'Amar, Ashrei, and Yishtabach).
The Sephardim who, in general, follow more closely the dictates of the Kabalah than the Ashkenazim are, therefore, more careful about the recitation of the Korbanos than the Ashkenazim. The proof of this is the fact that the Chasidim - who are of Ashkenazi origin - are also, in general, more careful about the recitation of Korbanos than non-Chasidic Ashkenazim. They, of course, adopted, more or less, the Nusach ha'Tefilah of the AR"I Z"L.
Kol Tuv,
Yonasan Sigler
*This is not a Psak Halachah
M. Deutsch responded:
not being careful in saying Korbonos is a misnomer and an "error" in the
"yeshivishe" velt .
if you look in all the baalei halocho you will see that korbonos are one of
the ikar hatefila "unishalmo porim sefosaynu"
Yeshivas have just arbitrarily dropped cause that is their "thing" and their
way of showing theur "false frumkeit" you cant just tear out pages of the siddur!!
Saying of Korbonos needs to be encouraged.. and will lead to the coming of
moshiach!!