If the Gemara in tractate Shabbos 38a refers to eating a lot of eggs that were cooked for a long time because of their delicious taste, than there is a difficulty.
Rebbi (Rabbeinu HaKadosh) was also present there.
However, in tractate Kessubos 104a the Gemara quotes the words of Rebbi just before his Petirah stating that he did not partake of any worldly pleasures (especially indulgence in delicacies, as Tosfos ad loc points out based on a Midrash).
It cannot even be said that it might have been LeKavod Shabbos, since Rashi DH VeHeviu states that it occurred on a weekday.
Respectfully,
Mordechai Schwimmer
There is a difference in eating l'Shem Shamayim, all the time realizing the tasty bounty given to us by Hash-m, and eating in order to derive culinary pleasure. We are supposed to recognize the fact that Hash-m gave us many varied tastes of food. This is apparent from the understanding of Tosfos in Berachos (37a, DH "Borei") of the Berachah of "Borei Nefashos Rabos v'Chesronam," which Tosfos says means thanking Hash-m for the staples of life, bread and water. Tosfos continues to explain that "Al Kol Mah she'Barasa li'Hachayos Bahem Nefesh Kol Chai," refers to everything (almost all other foods and drinks) that "You have made which was not a staple", such as apples which Hash-m made purely for our enjoyment . For this we thank the One who sustains the worlds.
A Tzadik is supposed to gain from tasting delicious foods the recognition that Hash-m is the Creator of the Universe and He bestows Chesed upon us constantly. He loves us and cares about us. One who eats tasty food with this in mind will surely come to high levels of spirituality, as the KUZARI says that one can attain great spiritual heights through Simchas Yom Tov just as he can through fasting.
This is presumably how Rebbi ate the eggs in the Gemara in Shabbos, as opposed to most people who eat for their own pleasure. When Rebbi stated in Kesubos that he did not benefit from this world, he was referring to this latter pleasure. The former is Avodas Hash-m.
Kol Tuv,
Yaakov Montrose
According to Tosfos themselves (Avodah Zarah 11a D"H Tsnon), Rabbeinu HaKadosh would not benefit from this world even in the manner described (l'Shem Shamayim).
Based on Rebbis's statement in Kessubos 104a, Tosfos there (in Avodah Zarah) attribute the consumption of out of season produce to Rebbi's houseguests and not to Rebbi himself.
Since Tosfos answer in Avodah Zarah does not apply to Shabbos 38a (because there Rebbi himself ate the eggs), we are back to the original difficulty.
Respectfully,
Mordechai Schwimmer
Thank you for responding with a good point. However, there is a rule that Tosfos in different Mesechtos are assumed not to agree, which is why the CHIDA in SHEM HAGEDOLIM and others say that one cannot ask a contradiction in Tosfos from a different Mesechta. Accordingly, I stand by my original explanation based on Tosfos in Berachos.
Moreover, the Yerushalmi in Kedushin (4:12) says that a person will have to answer to Hashem why he did not partake of every good thing that he saw. Based on this Yerushalmi, the IYUN YAKOV in Kesubos (104a) says that it is possible that when Rebbi said that he did not have pleasure from this world he was saying so as Viduy, doing Teshuvah for not having appreciated Hashem's world enough. Though this may seem to be an extreme explanation, there are unquestionably are other explanations, such as the Yerushalmi in Kedushin, Tosfos in Berachos, and the aforementioned Kuzari, which all seem to indicate that eating Hashem's food in order to appreciate His goodness is called Avodas Hashem. This approach seems to be the best way to answer your question from the Gemara in Shabbos (38a).
It is also possible that Tosfos in Avoda Zara would not argue with this concept. The Gemara you quoted from Avoda Zara says that certain delicacies "did not stop from the table of Antoninus and Rebbi." Just as the "table of Antoninus" refers to the many people who relied on Antoninus, so too the simple explanation of the Gemara is that it is referring to the people who relied on and ate from the food of Rebbi. Tosfos in Avoda Zara does not necessarily disagree with Tosfos in Berachos, but rather understands that the simplest explanation of the Gemara is that other people ate the food.
In closing, the YAVETZ in Avoda Zara (11a) makes a statement which would also answer your question. He maintains that the explanation of Rebbi's statement in Kesubos is that Rebbi never benefitted from his Torah stature like the amount of his small finger, not that he never benefitted from this world. It seems clear that Tosfos in Avoda Zara argues with this Yavetz.
b'Birkas ha'Torah,
Yaakov Montrose
It is also possible that Tosfos in Avoda Zara would not argue with this concept. The Gemara you quoted from Avoda Zara says that certain delicacies "did not stop from the table of Antoninus and Rebbi." Just as the "table of Antoninus" refers to the many people who relied on Antoninus, so too the simple explanation of the Gemara is that it is referring to the people who relied on and ate from the food of Rebbi. Tosfos in Avoda Zara does not necessarily disagree with Tosfos in Berachos, but rather understands that the simplest explanation of the Gemara is that other people ate the food.
This can't be, since the reason Tosfos says this is because of the Gemarah in Kesuvos, as Tosfos brings there.
I always felt that our Gemarah in Shabbos is a proof to Rashi's explanation in Kesuvos. That Rebbi never was Tore'ach (worked for) getting pleasure. (It would imply that if it came to him by itself i.e. served to him, he wouldn't refuse it)
Chaim Smulowitz
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Rabbi Montrose responds:
Tosfos in Avodah Zarah is bothered that the Gemara in Kesuvos, which apparently says that Rebbi did not benefit from this world, seemingly contradicts the Gemara in Avodah Zarah which says that Rebbi maintained delicacies on his table. My explanation above was that Tosfos (as is the way of Tosfos and many Rishonim) always seeks the simplest answer to the question at hand without going into other explanations of the Gemara. Being that there is a simple answer that Rebbi did not even eat the food, and this fits well with the Gemara in Avodah Zarah, this is the easiest way to reconcile the Gemara in Avodah Zarah with the Gemara in Kesuvos.
As I have alluded to in my past two responses, there are many explanations of Rebbi's statement. The answer Tosfos provides in Avodah Zarah is a good answer no matter what one holds the true explanation of Rebbi's statement in Kesuvos is, because Tosfos is explaining that the two Gemaros have nothing to do with each other.
To summarize, Tosfos is giving the simplest answer for the Gemara in Avodah Zarah, and is possibly avoiding having to discuss the true meaning of the Gemara in Kesuvos, which is a Gemara with many explanations and is not a Gemara Tosfos must discuss at length in Meseches Avodah Zarah. It is therefore still possible that Tosfos holds of (or at least finds plausible) the explanation that eating l'Shem Shamayim was not included in Rebbi's declaration, despite the fact that Tosfos quotes the Gemara in Kesuvos.
Kol Tuv,
Yaakov Montrose
Rabbotai,
I had the impression from the gemara that Rebbe ate delicacies because he was an istanis, a very delicate person, an aristocrat. It's not that he davke enjoyed such things as radishes in Winter and in Summer. He simply couldn't do without them. Rebbe washed his face on the night that his wife died. He told his talmidim that he was doing this because he was different than other men, he was an istanis.
B'kavod,
Sam Kosofsky
I believe it was Raban Gamliel who washed during Aninus (Berachos 16b), not Rebbi. Rebbi was used to extreme discomfort (Bava Metzia 85a).
M. Kornfeld
Was it at all Rebbi who enjoyed the delicious egg? After all, it might not have been Rebbi who ate the tasteful eggs.
The very same incident is related in the Yerushalmi Shabbos 3,1 (22a), however the reading there is "Ani ve'Abba" (me and my father) rather than "Ani ve'Rebbi" as it is in the Bavli.
Furthermore, in the Yerushalmi, the concluding words "Achalnu me'Hem Harbeh" are also omitted, "exonerating" so to speak not only Rebbi but also R' Chama and his father Chanina (who some believe is R' Chanina Bar Chama, designated by Rebbi to succeed him as Rosh Yeshivah (Kesubos 103b)).
Mordechai Schwimmer