More Discussions for this daf
1. Bishul b'Shogeg on Shabbos 2. Kukiani 3. איכא דאמרי רב שימי בר אשי בלע חיויא
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SHABBOS 109

Daniel Moskovich asked:

Daf 109b of Shabbos and Daf 36a of Brachos have a seeming contradiction which I can't see addressed in the tosfos or anywhere- in Shabbos, it says that kemach seorin brings kukiani (worms) if left out 40 days, whereas in brachos it says it brings kukiani with no mention of time, and this is the final answer that refutes the kasha against Rav Nachman. If one says that Shmuel there meant "raw pumpkins and kemach seorin left out for 40 days", it appears this would have to be mentioned either in the text or in the tosfos, otherwise the kasha against Rav Nachman would stand! The fact that the "40 days" is not mentioned by Shmuel appears substantive, certainly to the debate there. There is no mention of the "40 days" there at all.

How is this settled?

Daniel Moskovich, Kyoto, Japan

The Kollel replies:

Daniel:

Let's analyze. Rav Nachman says that wheat flower is Shehakol. Shmuel says barely flour is Shehakol. Does that mean that he holds that wheat flour is Adamah? No, answers the Gemara, wheat is also Shehakol, as Rav Nachman states. Shmuel just wanted to emphasize that even barley flour is Shehakol, even though there is a Kukiani problem .

According to Shabbos 109b, the problem of Kukiani is only after 40 days. But even so, Shmuel makes his point by saying that barley flour is always Shehakol, since he doesn't differentiate between before 40 days and after 40 days. Therefore the Gemara in Berachos 36 does not need to mention the point of 40 days.

It could be this is what Rabbi Akiva Eiger means in Gilyon Hashas on the daf in Berachos, "as brought in Shabbos 109b", that the worm problem is only after 40 days.

All the best

Reuven Weiner