KIDUSHIN 12 (8 Elul) - Dedicated in memory of Esther Miryam bas Harav Chaim Zev and her husband Harav Refael Yisrael ben Harav Moshe (Snow), whose Yahrzeits are 7 Elul and 8 Elul respectively. Sponsored by their son and daughter in law, Moshe and Rivka Snow.

1)

(a)We just saw how Beis Shamai require a Dinar by the Kinyan of an Amah Ivriyah (in order to make Gera'on Kesef possible). Why will anything more than a Perutah not suffice?

(b)On what basis do they learn Kidushei Ishah from Amah Ivriyah?

(c)Rava offers a fourth explanation in Beis Shamai. What is it?

1)

(a)We just saw how Beis Shamai require a Dinar by the Kinyan of an Amah Ivriyah (in order to make Gera'on Kesef possible). The reason that they require a Dinar and not just a little more than a Perutah is because having precluded the sale-price of a Perutah, the Torah looks for something more substantial, which Chazal determine as a Dinar, as we explained earlier.

(b)In fact, they learn Kidushei Ishah (not just from Amah Ivriyah, but) from the Kidushin of Yi'ud, which is conditional to the sale of every Amah Ivriyah.

(c)Rava offers a fourth explanation in Beis Shamai ascribing their opinion to a Takanas Chachamim, to raise the dignity of Jewish women.

2)

(a)'u'Beis Hillel Omrim bi'Perutah'. On what basis do we refute Rav Yosef's contention that the Perutah is independent and has no minimum value?

(b)How do we know that the link to the Italian Isar is constant, and is not merely informing us the value of the Perutah in the time of Moshe?

(c)When Ravin arrived from Eretz Yisrael, he quoted Rebbi Dustai, Rebbi Yanai and Rebbi Oshaya, who evaluated the Perutah at (what initially appears to be) a higher price than Rav Dimi. What is the minimum value of a Perutah according to them?

2)

(a)'u'Beis Hillel Omrim bi'Perutah'. We refute Rav Yosef's contention that the Perutah is independent and has no minimum value on the basis of our Mishnah, which gives the value of the Perutah as one eighth of an Italian Isar.

(b)We know that the link to the Italian Isar is constant, and is not merely informing us the value of the Perutah in the time of Moshe because when Rav Dimi arrived from Eretz Yisrael, he quoted Rav Simai, who gave the current price of the Perutah as one eighth of an Italian Isar.

(c)When Ravin arrived from Eretz Yisrael, he quoted Rebbi Dustai, Rebbi Yanai and Rebbi Oshaya, who gave the Perutah at (what initially appears to be) a higher price than Rav Dimi. The minimum price of a Perutah according to them was one sixth of an Italian Isar.

3)

(a)Rav Yosef tried to prove his original contention from a Beraisa, which states that there are more than two thousand Perutos in two Sela'im ('Yeser me'Alpayim'). In what context does the Tana say this?

(b)How does he prove his point from there?

(c)How did that old man amend the Beraisa cited by Rav Yosef in order to refute his proof?

(d)How do we explain the new Lashon, bearing in mind that really, there are only 1536 Perutos in two Sela'im?

3)

(a)Rav Yosef tried to prove his original contention from a Beraisa, which states that there are more than two thousand Perutos in two Sela'im with regard to someone who has sinned and is obligated to bring an Asham, which costs a minimum of two Sela'im (to teach us the price of a sin even when it is b'Shogeg).

(b)He proves his point from there because if there are more than two thousand Perutos in two Sela'im, then a Perutah will be equivalent to approximately a tenth of an Italian Isar.

(c)To refute Rav Yosef's proof from the Beraisa that he cited that old man amended the Beraisa from 'Yeser me'Alpayim' to 'Karov l'Alpayim'.

(d)Despite the fact that really, there are only 1536 Perutos in two Sela'im the Tana referred to it as close to two thousand, since the figure exceeded the half-way mark between one and two thousand.

4)

(a)How do we arrive at this figure, given that there are twenty-four Isrim in a Dinar?

4)

(a)Given that there are twenty-four Isrim in a Dinar, we arrive at this figure by virtue of the fact that there are eight Perutos in an Isar, twenty-four Isrim in a Dinar and four Dinarim in a Sela (eight, in two Sela'im); and 24x8x8 = 1536.

5)

(a)Abaye asked Rav Dimi whether he and Ravin simply followed the two opinions in the Beraisa. What is the value of a Perutah according to ...

1. ... the Tana Kama of the Beraisa?

2. ... Raban Shimon ben Gamliel?

(b)Rav Dimi replied that both he and Ravin followed the opinion of the Tana Kama (and in fact, they do not argue). What then, is the basis of their two opinions (whether there are eight Perutos in an Italian Isar or six)?

(c)Why did Rav Dimi connect his and Ravin's opinions to that of the Tana Kama, rather than that of Raban Shimon ben Gamliel?

5)

(a)Abaye asked Rav Dimi whether he and Ravin simply followed the to opinions in the Beraisa. The value of a Perutah according to ...

1. ... the Tana Kama of the Beraisa is an eighth of an Italian Isar.

2. ... Raban Shimon ben Gamliel is a sixth of an Italian Isar.

(b)Rav Dimi replied that both he and Ravin followed the opinion of the Tana Kama (and in fact, they did not argue). The basis of their two opinions (whether there are eight Perutos in an Italian Isar or six) depends purely upon the current value of the Isar. He is speaking when there are twenty-four Isrin to the Dinar (8x24-192), and Ravin, when there are thirty-two Isrin to the Dinar (6x32=192).

(c)Rav Dimi connected his and Ravin's opinions to that of the Tana Kama, rather than to that of Raban Shimon ben Gamliel because it tallies with our Stam Mishnah.

6)

(a)On what grounds did Shmuel say that if a man betroths a woman with a date, she is Mekudeshes (even if a Kur of dates costs a Dinar - and there are thousands of dates in a Kur])?

(b)How does Shmuel reconcile this with Beis Hillel, who requires the object of Kidushin to be worth a Perutah?

(c)In the case where a man betrothed a woman with a wad of cloths, why did Rav Shimi bar Chiya need to have the cloths evaluated? In view of Shmuel's ruling, the woman would have been Safek Mekudeshes anyway?

6)

(a)Shmuel said that if a man betroths a woman with a date, she is Mekudeshes (even if a Kur of dates costs a Dinar and there are thousands of dates in a Kur]) because we suspect that perhaps in Madai (or anywhere else in the world) the date is worth a Perutah.

(b)Shmuel reconciles this with Beis Hillel, who requires the object of Kidushin to be worth a Perutah by establishing Beis Hillel by Vadai Mekudeshes, whereas he is speaking about Safek Mekudeshes (i.e. for her to require a Get before marrying anybody else).

(c)In the case where a man betrothed a woman with a wad of cloths, Rav Shimi bar Chiya needed to have the cloths evaluated to ensure that she was Vadai Mekudeshes, to enable her to get married without a Get.

7)

(a)In another episode, Rav Chisda was evaluating a black marble stone with which a man had betrothed a woman. Why did he not consider Shmuel's opinion (that the woman was Safek Mekudeshes anyway)?

(b)What did Rav Chisda reply when the man's mother claimed that the stone was definitely worth a Perutah on the day that he had betrothed the woman with it?

(c)How do we know that Rav Chisda disagreed with Shmuel? How do we know that he was not examining the stone in order to ascertain whether the woman was Vadai Mekudeshes or Safek (see Tosfos)?

7)

(a)In another episode, Rav Chisda was evaluating a black marble stone with which a man had betrothed a woman. He did not consider Shmuel's opinion (that the woman was Safek Mekudeshes anyway) because, in his opinion, we only contend with the value of the object in the location where the Kidushin occurs.

(b)When the man's mother claimed that the stone was definitely worth a Perutah on the day that he had betrothed the woman with it, Rav Chisda replied that in the event that the stone was not currently worth a Perutah, she did not have the authority to forbid the woman on the second man.

(c)We know that Rav Chisda disagreed with Shmuel, and that he was not examining the stone in order to ascertain whether the woman was Vadai Mekudeshes or Safek because it so happened that the second man to betroth her was the first man's brother. Now if Rav Chisda concurred with Shmuel, she would have been Safek Mekudeshes in any case, in which case she would have required a Get from the first man, and Rav Chisda would not have been able to intimate to the mother that the woman was permitted to her second son.

12b----------------------------------------12b

8)

(a)Rav Chisda compared the current case to that of Yehudis, wife of Rebbi Chiya, who was having exceptionally strong birth-pains. What was the cause of those birth-pains?

(b)Who were ...

1. ... Yehudah and Chizkiyah?

2. ... Pazi and Tavi?

(c)What did Rebbi Chiya's wife claim her mother had told her? Why did she mention this?

(d)What was Rebbi Chiya's reply?

8)

(a)Rav Chisda compared the current case to that of Yehudis, wife of Rebbi Chiya, who was having exceptionally strong birth-pains because she was about to give birth to twins.

(b)

1. Yehudah and Chizkiyah were Rebbi Chiya's twin sons.

2. Pazi and Tavi were his twin daughters.

(c)Rebbi Chiya's wife claimed that her mother told her that her father had already accepted Kidushin on her behalf before she became betrothed to him (and that consequently, she was forbidden to him). She mentioned this hoping that she would therefore be declared forbidden to Rebbi Chiya (in order to avoid having to be intimate with him again and becoming pregnant).

(d)Rebbi Chiya replied that she did not have the authority to forbid herself on her husband.

9)

(a)On what grounds did the Rabanan maintain that the woman's second son, whom Rav Chisda had permitted to marry the woman, was forbidden to him?

(b)In reply, Rav Chisda cited Rebbi Chanina. What did the daughters of Shmuel state in his Beis-Din? On what grounds did he believe them?

(c)What did Rebbi Chanina retort, when he was informed that there were in fact, witnesses who could be called to testify that they had been captured?

9)

(a)The Rabanan maintained that the woman's second son, whom Rav Chisda had permitted to marry the woman, was forbidden to him on the grounds that there were witnesses in Idis who had been there when the first Kidushin took place, and who knew that the stone was worth a Perutah at the time.

(b)In reply, Rav Chisda cited Rebbi Chanina, in whose Beis-Din the daughters of Shmuel admitted that they had been captured, but who denied having been raped. He believed them on the grounds that there were no witnesses to testify that they had indeed been captured, in which case we apply the principle 'ha'Peh she'Asar, Hu ha'Peh she'Hitir').

(c)When Rebbi Chanina was informed that there were in fact, witnesses who could be called to testify that they had been captured, he retorted that it was not possible to declare the daughters of Shmuel forbidden on the basis of witnesses who were in the north (and not in Beis-Din).

10)

(a)On what grounds did Abaye and Rava disagree with Rav Chisda?

(b)The Rabanan kept away from the remaining members of that family, who lived in Sura. Why was that? Was it perhaps because they held like Shmuel?

(c)When someone betrothed a woman with a twig of myrtle in public, Rav Yosef ruled that he should receive Malkus and give the woman a Get. Why ...

1. ... the Malkus?

2. ... the Get?

(d)Rav would administer Makas Mardus for three breaches of moral conduct connected with Kidushin. One of them, for betrothing with Bi'ah. What are the other two?

10)

(a)Abaye and Rava disagreed with Rav Chisda on the grounds that one cannot learn the Din of an Eshes Ish (which is a Safek d'Oraisa) to that of a captive (i.e. the decree that a female captive was automatically raped) which is no more than a Chumra d'Rabanan).

(b)The Rabanan kept away from the remaining members of that family, who lived in Sura (not because they held like Shmuel, but) because they held like Abaye and Rava.

(c)When someone betrothed a woman with a twig of myrtle in public, Rav Yosef ruled that he should ...

1. ... receive Malkus for betrothing in public (in contravention of Rav's decree).

2. ... and give the woman a Get because he held like Shmuel ('Shema Shaveh Perutah b'Madai').

(d)Rav would administer Makas Mardus for three breaches of moral conduct connected with Kidushin: for betrothing with Bi'ah for betrothing in the public domain and for betrothing directly, without a prior Shiduch.

11)

(a)He would also administer Makas Mardus to someone who ...

1. ... negated a Get that he had sent his wife through a Shali'ach, or who secretly informed two witnesses that the Get he was giving his wife was not valid because he had been forced to write it. Why did he institute Makas Mardus in these two cases?

2. ... treated a Shali'ach Beis-Din whom Beis-Din had sent to invite him to a Din Torah, with contempt, or who retained a Shamta d'Rabanan (a form of Niduy). What does it mean to retain a Shamta? For how long would he need to retain it before he received Malkus?

3. ... slept over in the house of his future mother-in-law. Why then, did Rav Sheshes give Malkus even to someone who just passed in front of her house?

(b)According to the Nehardai, Rav only administered Makas Mardus to someone who betrothed a woman with Bi'ah and without a Shiduch. What is the alternative version of the Neherda'i's statement?

11)

(a)He would also administer Makas Mardus to someone who ...

1. ... negated a Get that he had sent his wife through a Shali'ach, or who secretly informed two witnesses that the Get he was giving his wife was not valid because he had been forced to write it because in both cases, his wife, not knowing that the Get had been nullified, would use what she believed to be a Kosher Get to remarry (when in fact, she was still married to her first husband) See also Tosfos Yevamos 32a. DH 'de'Masar'.

2. ... who treated a Sh'li'ach Beis-Din (sent by Beis-Din to invite him to a Din Torah) with contempt, or who retained a Shamta d'Rabanan (a form of Niduy) meaning that he was not concerned about the Shamta placed on him by the Beis-Din, as indicated by declining to go to Beis-Din within thirty days and ask them to pardon him and rescind the Shamta.

3. ... slept over in the house of his father-in-law to be. Rav Sheshes gave Malkus even to someone who just passed in front of her house because there had been rumors that he was having an affair with her.

(b)According to the Neherda'i, Rav only administered Makas Mardus to someone who betrothed a woman with Bi'ah and without a Shiduch. Others quote them as saying that Rav only administered Makas Mardus to someone who betrothed a woman without a Shiduch (even if he betrothed her with Kidushei Kesef or Shtar).

12)

(a)When the man who betrothed a woman with a mat made of myrtle branches was informed that it was not worth a Perutah, what did he reply?

(b)What did Rava comment when the woman reacted to his words with silence?

(c)Rava based his ruling on a Beraisa, where the Tana states that, in the case of 'Kinsi Sela Zeh b'Pikadon v'Chazar v'Amar Lah Hiskadshi Li Bo, b'Sha'as Matan Ma'os, Mekudeshes'. What does 'be'Sha'as Matan Ma'os' mean?

(d)What does the Tana rule in the case of 'le'Achar Matan Ma'os' by ...

1. ... 'Ratz'sah'?

2. ... 'Lo Ratz'sah'?

12)

(a)When the man who betrothed a woman with a mat made of myrtle branches was informed that it was not worth a Perutah, he replied that she should then be betrothed with the four Zuz that was hidden inside it.

(b)When the woman reacted to his words with silence, Rava commented that silence after having received the money is not tantamount to acceptance (as it is before receiving it), but rather as indifference.

(c)Rava based his ruling on a Beraisa, where the Tana states that, in the case of 'Kinsi Sela Zeh b'Pikadon v'Chazar v'Amar Lah Hiskadshi Li Bo, b'Sha'as Matan Ma'os (before having received the money) Mekudeshes'.

(d)In the case of 'le'Achar Matan Ma'os' by ...

1. ... 'Ratz'sah', the Tana rules that she is betrothed.

2. ... 'Lo Ratz'sah' that she is not.

13)

(a)In the previous case, when the Tana says 'Lo Ratz'sah', why can he not possible mean that the woman refused?

(b)Then what does he mean? What has Rava therefore proved from the Beraisa?

13)

(a)In the previous case, when the Tana says 'Lo Ratz'sah', he cannot possibly mean that the woman refuses because, if he did, then he would not have ruled that she was Mekudeshes in the Reisha (in the case of 'be'Sha'as Matan Ma'os').

(b)Consequently, it must mean that the woman was silent, a clear proof for Rava's ruling that silence after having accepted the money, is construed as indifference, but not as consent.