KIDUSHIN 63 - sponsored by Asher and Etti Schoor of Lawrence, NY. May they be blessed with a year filled with the joy of the Torah and see their children continue to grow in Avodas Hashem.

1)

ACQUISITIONS THAT COULD NOT BE MADE NOW

(a)

(Abaye): R. Eliezer ben Yakov, Rebbi and R. Meir all hold that one can stipulate to make an transaction in the future, even if the transaction could not be done now.

(b)

We explained R. Eliezer ben Yakov above;

(c)

(The source for Rebbi.) (Beraisa - Rebbi): "Do not return a slave to his master" discusses one who bought a slave on condition to free him.

1.

Question: What is the case?

2.

Answer (Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak): He wrote a document to the slave saying 'when I buy you, you are acquired to yourself.'

(d)

(The source for R. Meir.) (Beraisa - R. Meir): If now Sam cannot be Mekadesh Sally, and he stipulated that it take effect after any of the following, she is Mekudeshes then:

1.

He converts, or is freed;

2.

She converts or is freed;

3.

Her husband or her sister (Sam's wife) dies;

4.

She does Chalitzah.

(e)

R. Yochanan ha'Sandlar says, she is not Mekudeshes;

(f)

Rebbi Yehudah ha'Nasi says, letter of the law, she is Mekudeshes. Chachamim enacted that she is not (after her husband or sister dies), due to animosity (lest her husband or sister feel that Sally hopes he or she will die).

(g)

Question: Abaye should also list Rebbi Yehudah ha'Nasi (for he agrees that the Kidushin works)!

(h)

Answer: He did list him! Rebbi Yehudah ha'Nasi is Rebbi.

(i)

Question: Abaye should also list R. Akiva!

1.

(Mishnah): If a woman said to her husband 'what I produce is forbidden to you like a Korban', this vow need not be annulled. (Since she is obligated to work for him, she cannot forbid this);

2.

R. Akiva says, he should annul it, lest she produce more than she is obligated, and the vow will forbid the excess (even though there was no excess when she vowed).

(j)

Answer (Rav Huna Brei d'Rav Yehoshua): The case is, she said 'my hands are Kodesh to their Maker.' Her hands are around at the time of the vow.

2)

KIDUSHIN THROUGH WAGES

(a)

(Mishnah): If one said 'you are Mekudeshes to me Al Menas that I will speak on your behalf to the governor', or 'Al Menas that I will work for you', she is Mekudeshes only if he did so.

(b)

(Gemara - Reish Lakish): The case is, he gave her Kidushin money when he made this Tenai.

(c)

Question #1: Why can she not be Mekudeshes solely through the value of his service?

1.

(Beraisa): If one said 'you are Mekudeshes to me in lieu of payment for my letting you ride on the donkey (or in the wagon or ship)', she is Mekudeshes.

2.

Suggestion: Perhaps there also, he also gave her Kidushin money.

3.

Rejection: He said that the Kidushin is in lieu of payment.

(d)

Question #2 (Beraisa): If a woman told a man 'keep me company, and I will be Mekudeshes to you' or 'jest in front of me', 'dance in front of me', or 'act for me like in a play', she is Mekudeshes only if we estimate that this is worth a Perutah.

1.

If also here, he also gave her Kidushin money, we would not need to evaluate his performance!

2.

This refutes Reish Lakish.

(e)

Answer (Reish Lakish): The Tana'im of the Beraisos hold that wages are not owed until the completion of a job (therefore, it is as if he gives her money at the end);

1.

The Tana of our Mishnah holds that wages accrue from the start of the job until the end (it is considered like a debt, and a loan cannot be Mekadesh).

(f)

Question: What forced Reish Lakish to say that the Tana holds that wages accrue from the start until the end, and he also gave her Kidushin money?

(g)

Answer (Rava) Question: Why did the Mishnah say 'Al Menas that', and not 'in lieu of payment for'?

1.

Answer: It is because the service is not the Kidushin money.

3)

SATISFACTION WITH KIDUSHIN

(a)

(Mishnah): If one said 'Al Menas that (my) father will want (that you be Mekudeshes to me)', if he wanted, she is Mekudeshes. If not, she is not Mekudeshes;

1.

If the father died, she is Mekudeshes. If the son dies, we counsel the father to say that he does not want (so she will not need to do Yibum).

(b)

(Gemara) Question: What does it mean 'Al Menas that father will want'?

1.

Suggestion: It means that he will say 'yes'.

2.

Rejection: If the father died, she is Mekudeshes, even though he didn't say anything!

63b----------------------------------------63b

(c)

Answer #1: Rather, it means that he will be silent.

1.

Objection (Seifa): If the son dies, we counsel the father to say he does not want.

i.

How does this help? He was already silent!

(d)

Answer #2: Rather, the entire Seifa (when either of them die) discusses when he explicitly said 'Al Menas that he will not protest.'

(e)

Objection: Must we say that the Seifa discusses a different case than the Reisha?!

(f)

Answer (R. Yanai): Indeed, it does!

1.

(Reish Lakish): R. Yanai holds that when clauses of a Mishnah contradict each other, it is better to say that they discuss different cases, than to say that different Tana'im taught them.

(g)

Answer #3 (Rav Yosef bar Ami): The Mishnah discusses one case. He said 'Al Menas that father will want';

1.

He means 'Al Menas that father will not protest within 30 days.'

4)

DOUBTS ABOUT WHO IS THE HUSBAND

(a)

(Mishnah): If Reuven does not remember to whom he was Mekadesh his daughter, and David came and said 'it was to me', he is believed;

(b)

If Moshe also claims that he was Mekadesh her, both men divorce her;

1.

If they agree, one can divorce her and the other can marry her.

(c)

(Gemara - Rav): (In the Reisha) David is believed to divorce her (and permit her to everyone else), but he is not believed to marry her.

1.

He is believed to divorce her. (Had he not been Mekadesh her, he would not divorce her and make others think that she is permitted, for) one does not sin unless he hopes to benefit from it;

2.

He is not believed to marry her, lest his lust overcame him.

(d)

(Rav Asi): He is believed even to marry her.

1.

Rav Asi admits that if a woman says 'I am Mekudeshes, I do not remember to whom', and Shimon says 'to me', he is not believed to marry her.

(e)

Question (against Rav - Mishnah): If they agree, one can divorce her, and the other can marry her.

(f)

Answer (Rav): That case is different. Since another man contradicts him, he would be afraid to marry her had he not truly been Mekadesh her.

(g)

Support (for Rav Asi - Beraisa): If Reuven does not remember to whom he was Mekadesh his daughter, and David says 'it was to me', he is believed even to marry her.

1.

If after he marries her, Moshe says 'she was Mekudeshes to me', he is not believed to forbid her to David.

2.

If a woman does not remember to whom she was Mekadesh herself; and David says 'it was to me', he is not believed to marry her, lest she agree even though he lies (she fears lest the Mekadesh never come, and she will never be able to remarry).

5)

ESTABLISHING AN ISUR

(a)

Question: If a man says that he was Mekadesh his daughter, do we kill one who has Bi'ah with her?

(b)

Answer #1 (Rav): No.

(c)

Answer #2 (Rav Asi): Yes.

1.

Rav holds that the Torah believes the father to forbid her, but not to kill people due to this;

2.

Rav Asi says that the Torah totally believes the father.

(d)

(Rav Asi): I admit that we do not kill based on her admission that she was Mekadesh herself.

(e)

Rav Asi: Seemingly, I contradict myself!

1.

When her father was Mekadesh her (but forgot to whom), a man is believed to marry her, and a father is believed totally that she is Mekudeshes, even to kill people;

2.

When she was Mekadesh herself (but forgot to whom), a man is not believed to marry her. All the more so, she should be totally believed that she is Mekudeshes, even to kill people!

(f)

Answer (Rav Asi): This is not difficult. The Torah believed only the father, not her. (When she says that she is Mekudeshes, her admission forbids to other men.)

(g)

(Rav Chisda): We do not kill based on what the father or she herself says.

(h)

This is like Rav Chisda taught elsewhere:

1.

(Rav Chisda): If a man says that his son is over nine years old, or that his daughter is over three (so the child's Bi'ah is considered Bi'ah), he is believed for Korbanos (e.g. to obligate an adult who had Bi'ah with the child b'Shogeg, if this was forbidden due to Ervah or Nidah), but not to lash or kill the adult.

2.

Support (Beraisa): If a man said 'my son (or daughter) is Bar (or Bas) Mitzvah', he is believed for vows (that the child makes), Cherem, Hekdesh, and Erchin (they take effect);

i.

He is not believed for lashes or execution if the child transgressed.

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