Hello kollel!
I had a question on this mishna which says that if there is a stillborn fetus that's not birthed yet, the mother is tahor but if a midwife reaches into the woman and touches the fetus, the midwife is tamei.
Several questions on this.
1) I assume the mother is tahor bc the entity is contained somehow in her and that acts as a separation of sorts from the tumah. How do we square this with the Gemara yevamos that a nochri who immerses for conversion lets it count for the fetus too?
2)if it's contained, how does it convey to the midwife and further if the midwife becomes tamei doesn't the the mother become tamei too as the midwife withdraws her hand bc she's now in contact with the tamei midwife?
3) there are mishanyot in seder taharot that deal with animals holding shratzim in their mouths and sponges with liquids that will eventually be released that are tamei now bc of the eventual outcome. Since the fetus is similarly destined to exit, why isn't the mother tamei right now?
Thank you
Shalom Joshua,
Thank you for your great questions.
1) I think there is a pretty clear distinction. Tum'ah v'Taharah have rules. When the Tum'ah is "swallowed" in something Tahor, it isn't considered Tamei, not because it is part of the Tahor surrounding it (in this case, the mother) but because the rule of Tum'ah Belu'ah which excludes something Belu'ah from Tum'ah until is has its own reality.
2) To your second question, the Bavli itself says that this Tum'ah is only mid'Rabanan. In Chulin 72a, Rava says in the name of Rav Yosef, in the name of Shmuel, "Tum'ah Zo Einah mi'Divrei Torah Ela mi'Divrei Sofrim," and Rav Hoshaya explains, "Gezeirah Shema Yotzi ha'Vlad Rosho Chutz la'Prozdor." In other words, min ha'Torah, since the fetus is still Belu'ah inside the mother, the mother stays Tahor, and even the touching would not make Tum'ah. The Chachamim made a special Gezeirah only on the hand of the midwife that touched it, not on the mother, to eliminate a mistake in a case the fetus' head is in a place that he is Tamei mid'Oraisa.
There are earlier sources (Tosefta, Ohalos 12:3; Sifrei Zuta, Bamidbar 19) that sound like the fetus could give real Tuma's Mes and that the midwife would be Tamei seven days mid'Oraisa, and there the rule "Belu'ah Eino Metamei" is not formulated as sharply. But the Bavli codifies it: the mother remains Tahor, the hand is Tamei only because of a Gezeirah.
3) As for your third question: The Mishnayos you are referring to are talking about cases of objects that cannot be considered a part of the animal holding the Sheretz in their mouth. The status of the fetus is for sure a part of the mother while it is alive. When it dies, we have a sort of philosophical discussion what is the status of this up to now, part of the mother, and when does this status change. As I said before, this discussion differs whether the topic is Tum'ah v'Taharah or just considering the fetus part of the mother.
I hope this helps,
Aharon Steiner