More Discussions for this daf
1. Hadran for Horayos 2. Teiku 3. Beki'us or Iyun
 DAF DISCUSSIONS - HORAYOS 14
1. Elie Samet asks:

Shalom rav,

In the end of horiyos there are two ways of learning "sinai"(bekius) "uproot mountains."(iyun)

It seems from thd gemara that sinai (bekius) is better.

Then the gemara continues. It asks if one talmid is sharp and raises difficulties; and the other is patient and reaches conclusions.

The second set of students end in a teiku.

Are these two sets different or the same conclusion of a teiku?

Is it possible bekius is better than iyun?

Elie

2. The Kollel replies:

Shalom Elie!

To the best of my understanding, these are two separate sets (although they are somewhat related). The first compares Girsah to Iyun and the second refers to two styles of Iyun. That said, if the "patient and reaches conclusions" includes the ability to arrive at the correct Halachic Psak then, yes, it is similar to "Sinai" and the other Middah is similar to "Okeir Harim". However, since this explanation is not explicit in the Gemora, I submit that these are two separate sets.

Regarding Bekius vs. Iyun:

The Pri Megadim says that we learn from this Gemora that a Rav who can Poskin Halachos (Sinai) should be called for an Aliyah before a Talmid Chacham who is a Lamdan but does not know Psak. However, Rav Shlomo Kluger dissents, and says that the preference to "Sinai" was only in the days of the Gemora when the entire Torah was only Ba'al Peh; today that we have thousands of Seforim, the Lamdan is first, as he is the source for any Halachos that are not written. The Chikrei Lev conures with Rav Shlomo Kluger.

There is an indication that the Rivash (271) and the Maharik (177) imply that even today "Sinai" is preferable. To be honest, the Teshuvos are very long, and I was not able to dedicate enough time to verify this, but from a superficial evaluation of what they write this seems to be so.

I heard once in the name of a great man (sorry I don't remember who) that, "those who learned just Bekius did not become Gedolim, and those who learned only Iyun-most of them not but some succeeded to become Gedolim, but many of those who learned also Bekius and also Iyun became Gedolim"

Bracha V'Hatslocha and Mazal Tov on your Siyum!

Shimon Brodie