Greetings. I was wondering why Chazal used so many stories that describe things in such an exaggerated manner that strain credulity. For example, the size of Og and of Moshe as discussed in the gemara Zevachim 113b. Or the stories of Rabba Bar Bar Chana and many others. Did Chazal intend for Jews to accept these descriptions literally, and if not, what is the purpose of them at all if Jews were not privy to the hidden meanings of these exaggerations (even according to the Maharsha)? Another example is that the land of the Tribes was Eretz Zvi. Or the ability of the Teva to accommodate a huge number of creatures? And if they DID expect Jews to accept them literally, what was the benefit of this, since they truly stretch the boundaries of credulity?
Thanks,
David Goldman
Hi David,
Thank you for your question. It is a 'hot potato' type :).
As you hinted in your question, you are touching a much wider subject typical to the Torah u'Mada contridictions, which targets intelligent learners very much. Sometimes it seems that Chazal had a different stance regarding scientific facts, and sometimes as in your examples it seems like they are exaggerating, maybe for no clear reason.
I know the Maharsha in several places, followed by the Vilna Gaon relate to these stories as 100% realistic truth, and I agree that it is not an easy task to understand Chazal accordingly(r)
I will not to bring an apologetic Pilpul to understand these great Mefarshim, mainly because I do not have enough knowledge not in Agada, nor in science.
I'd rather put in the spotlight, on the majority of the Mefarshim, from the time of Geonim on, who do not think Chazal in these places are being literal. The most famous scholar in this party is the Maharal of course, who wrote a whole book called Be'er ha'Golah to explain some of these kinds of Ma'amrei Chazal, but there are great names who were way before him, i.e. Rav Hai Gaon and the Shiltei Giborim who lead the list chronologically.
The Rambam in the Hakdama to Perek Chelek, so as his son Rav Avraham ben ha'Rambam, talk at length about the different people and how they understand the Agados of Chazal, while those who understand them literally are considered as insulting Chazal with their shallow understanding.
The basic Idea that runs through the Maharal's Sefer, but also can be uploaded from the Rambam is as follows. Sometimes the highest ideas hide in exaggerations and fiction, and an exaggeration comes to express the deepest idea behind the parable in the story Chazal say, in a way we should be hinted. The more specific a story gets; it loses its abstract idea.
This deep idea I brought down in short, is an idea I would recommend thinking about for a few minutes, since we know that the higher the common denominator reaches, the more principles and wisdom does it hold.
Let me know if this helps!
Regards,
Aharon Steiner
Thank you for your reply. What do you think specifically about the types of examples I mentioned? I remember that that even in cases in the Torah Rambam argued against Ramban about the great ages of the people mentioned, that it was not all people who had such long lives. If course even in that case one could ask about the need for mentioning the length of their lives. What difference could it have made to us whether Noach was 600 years old when he built the Teva or only 60 years old?! Or why anyone would have lived that long altogether?
Hi again David,
As I wrote, since some Mefarshim say that the deepest secrets of the Torah are hidden in these exaggerations, I am not sure I am the right person to reveal these secrets! In any case, we need to distinguish between Loshon Chazal and Loshon ha'Mikra. Even if we say that the numbers in Chazal aren't ki'Pshutam, it is unacceptable to say that as a Pshat in the Posuk. There are those who say the Torah uses round numbers, but I do not know of an opinion that the Torah can use figures as exaggeration.
As far as the question you asked from the extreme ages in the beginning of Bereishis, you mentioned the opinion of the Rambam in the Moreh Nevuchim who says that these people who are mentioned, do not represent the average person, and perhaps these individuals were extremely healthy. Others say that these ages were the standard in those days, and there is a third option, that the way ages were counted in the olden times, is different than the yearly counting we use now adays.
As far as Noach's age, we can see in several places in Chazal, that his age is used for different calculations. I.E., see Rosh ha'Shana 10b, and Rashi on Bereishis 7;4, Bereishis Raba 32;6.
Kol Tuv,
Aharon Steiner