Why does 53b consider israel land belonging to Yidden on sole merit of promise to Avrohom before actual inhabitance, in contrast to the pasuk in lech lecha 13:7 saying it then belonged to Canaanim and Prizi and that was the basis for rebuking Lot's shepherds that they were stealing in grazing their flocks in EY?
I'm thinking this: the promise to Avrohom to give him EY was to him and his zera. Perhaps it only gets the status of becoming his (and the Yiddens) after Avrohom had zera- Yitzchok, which is the time period of today's daf discussion. But, at Lots time of Shepherd argument, Yitzchok hadn't been born, so the lands ownership status then was still of goyim.
Rashi there makes two points why lots claim was invalid- 1) he's not the zera and it's currently eretz Haamim. The mefarshim deal with explaining rashis use of both points. Our above answer could also serve to explain why Rashi makes both points- they are intertwined according to this pshat (vs other pshatim that describe two independent arguments against Lot).
Daniel Gray, Canada
1) Yes, I agree with you. Eretz Yisrael did not actually belong to Avraham Avinu, only to his Zera. This in fact is stated by Rashi to Bereshis 13:7, that Eretz Yisrael was given to Avraham but he has no one to inherit him yet. Rashi writes that Avraham had not yet been Zocheh in Eretz Yisrael.
2) Rashi (Bereshis 12:6) writes that the Canaanites were at that time conquering Eretz Yisrael from the descendants of Shem. Eretz Yisrael had fallen to the offspring of Shem when Noach divided up Eretz Yisrael between his three sons. Therefore, Hash-m promised that He will return Eretz Yisrael in the future to the sons of Avraham who are the rightful owners, because they are descended from Shem.
3) We learn from Rashi (Bereshis 15:18) that Eretz Yisrael already belonged to Yitzchak. Hash-m said there to Avraham, "I have given this land to your seed." Rashi writes that when Hash-m says something, this means that it is as if it has already happened. The Talmud Yerushalmi (Chalah 2:1) explains that since Hash-m did not say "I will give it to your seed" but rather "I have given it to your seed" this means it has already been given.
4) After writing the above, I found that the Or ha'Chayim explains how and when Avraham and Yitzchak gained Eretz Yisrael:
a) Hash-m said to Avraham, "For all the Land that you see I will give to you and to your seed for eternity" (Bereshis 13:15). The Or ha'Chayim writes that it is clearly a miracle that Avraham was able to see the entire Eretz Yisrael. He writes that there is no greater Chazakah than Hash-m folding up the Land so that Avraham could see it all.
b) Seeing the entire Land was therefore a Chazakah whereby Avraham himself received Eretz Yisrael. We should note that the above verse (13:15) comes between 13:7 and 15:18. Verse 13:7 is where Rashi writes that Avraham had not yet gained Eretz Yisrael. Verse 15:18 is where Hash-m says, "I have given this Land to your seed," which we saw that the Talmud Yerushalmi in Chalah explains to mean that "I have already given it." Based on the Or ha'Chayim, we are now in a position to assert that the exact point in time when Avraham received Eretz Yisrael was when Hash-m showed it all to him (in verse 13:15).
c) Bereshis 26:1 tells us that Yitzchak went to the Land of the Pelishtim. In 26:3, Hash-m says to Yitzchak, "To you and your seed I will give all these lands." The Or ha'Chayim there cites the Ramban that the land of the Pelishtim is included in Eretz Yisrael. The Or ha'Chayim adds that it may be that Avraham's original Chazakah did not include the land of the Pelishtim. However, Yitzchak now made a complete Chazakah on the land of the Pelishtim by plowing and sowing seeds there.
d) According to the Or ha'Chayim, we can say that Rashi (Avodah Zarah 53b, DH v'Ashereihem) can be taken according to its simple meaning. Eretz Yisrael is an inheritance to them from their forefathers because Hash-m told Avraham that He would give it to him, and indeed He gave it to Avraham himself.
e) We will just note that the Yerushalmi in Chalah cited above also states, "Even before they entered Eretz Yisrael they had inherited it l'Mafreya." See also Talmud Bavli, Bava Basra 119a, which states that Eretz Yisrael is "Muchzekes." The Rashbam there (DH Muchzekes) explains that the Bnei Yisrael who left Egypt already had a part of Eretz Yisrael because Hash-m had already given it to them as an inheritance.
Yasher Koach!
Dovid Bloom
The Mesivta edition of the Gemara cites the Parshas Derachim (Derush #9) by the author of the Mishneh l'Melech, who asks your question, Daniel.
1) The answer of the Parshas Derachim is based on Tosfos (Rosh Hashanah 13a, DH v'Lo). The Gemara there states that Bnei Yisrael could not have brought the produce of Nochrim for the Korban ha'Omer after they entered Eretz Yisrael but before they conquered it, because we derive from a verse that what a Nochri reaps (and thereby belongs to him) is invalid for the Korban ha'Omer. Tosfos questions this from our Gemara which says that Eretz Yisrael is an inheritance for Klal Yisrael from the forefathers. How, then, can we say that when a Nochri reaped produce before Eretz Yisrael was conquered, it belonged to him? The Gemara (Avodah Zarah 53b) states that Bnei Yisrael already inherited it from the time of Avraham!
2) Tosfos answers that even though Eretz Yisrael was an inheritance for Klal Yisrael from their fathers, nevertheless the Nochri does own the produce that he sows in the land. This can be understood by saying that while Avraham had a Kinyan ha'Guf in Eretz Yisrael, the Canaanites and Prizites had a Kinyan Peiros -- they owned the produce that they cultivated from the fields.
3) When did Eretz Yisrael become totally the possession of Avraham and his offspring? The Parshas Derachim answers with the Midrash Rabah (Bereshis 41:5) which says that Hash-m said, "I said, 'To your seed I have given the land.' When will that be? When the seven nations will be uprooted from Eretz Yisrael." But for the moment the verse states, "And the Canaanite and Prizite were still in the Land." The seven nations still had a stake in the Land.
4) According to this, when Rashi (Bereshis 13:7) wrote that "Avram had not yet received Eretz Yisrael," this meant that he received the Kinyan ha'Guf but the Canaanites and Prizites still eat the produce. It is only when the seven nations were uprooted from the Land that the seed of Avraham received the Kinyan Peiros as well.
Dovid Bloom
Thank you Dovid. Prior to receiving your replies, I went over the pesukim and Rashi on the bris bein habisarim and noted that all the pesukim and Rashi were very meduyak and had also noted "venasatei" that Hash-m had already given (as you too noticed and pointed out), and that aside from Avrohom being gifted EY, there was a separate calculation regarding the expulsion of the Goyim and that the sins of the Canaanim and Prizi had not yet reached the level where they could be expelled. Two concurrent calculations - when the gift kicks in as well is when expulsion is deserved and due.
The 400 years of galus starting with when Yitzchok was born and Avos were Gerim by living in lands not theirs - is meduyak that it's not saying they didn't own the land in some way (for example, plug in either of your two reply email explanations), but rather that living in a land where they didn't have full rights at that time (for example, plug in either of your two reply email explanations and if using your first email reply, you can join with it my above comment that the Canaanim and Prizi had not yet reached the level where they could be expelled) and to that end it was referred to a land not theirs and thus gave them a status of a Ger in that land, as to have a status of a full-fledged owner needs full-fledged rights in the land without limitation.
Daniel
Hash-m said to Avraham Avinu (Bereshis 15:13) that his seed would be Gerim in a land -- Egypt -- that did not belong to them. This implies that Eretz Yisrael was already considered as a land that belonged to them. This fits well with Tosfos (Rosh Hashanah 13a, DH v'Lo) who says that they already owned the Land of Yisrael, even though they did not yet own the produce that grew from it.
B'Hatzlachah Rabah,
Dovid Bloom